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Who would you vote for?

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SFR: Who would WFF elect?

10K views 160 replies 60 participants last post by  Deleted member 10700 
#1 ·
Purely out of curiousity, I'm wondering who we would elect as president, if the election were decided solely by WFF members.

I really don't want to see this devolve into a bunch of bickering over who's best, and hope the moderators will respond accordingly if it does.

No need to say who you want--just cast your vote in the poll and leave it at that.

I just realized, that we should also (like Backyard and others) cast our vote for a president from among our own ranks.

I see Mingo is doing well so far.

Happy voting!!

J
 
#39 ·
Like I said in another thread... Democrats and Republicans are the same thing with different marketing. The only difference is in how they campaign and their target markets. They're both bought and paid for by the same people, and until we can get out of this false left/right paradigm, nothing will change.
 
#50 ·
I had an awesome history professor once, he made such an impact I had every class he taught. He did not focus on war history, but many other associated things and I ended up a History Major. That was not the origional plan, but that plan worked well. Oh, Alex, by the way, I too drive a crappy ass gas guzzling pathfinder. When it dies I'll probably get an Outback. It seems that they are popular and effective.
 
#52 ·
I'll bite on that fly, M. Le Constructeur; first, I've seen many, many people referred to as "********" or worse by city folk simply because they look down their noses at us for not being part of the "cogniscenti". They use it as an insult. Just wander down to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer Soundoff to see what I'm talking about. Conservatives are reviled, and I've only seen such unbridled hatred once before, from Viet Cong and their sympathizers. I took Jay's initial post to be an insult

Second, I'm a Republican because I believe in the values of the original party; individuality, self-reliance, small government, and self-responsibility, and equality. I don't buy into the rubbish about government being able to do it better than private industry (hell, just look at the post office!), and I certainly don't need somebody else telling me what I "should" do or feel/think. I resist being my brother's keeper, paying my taxes to send illegal aliens to the University-which is done in CA, as they allow them to pay in-state tuition.

I was a democrat when I shipped out to Southeast Asia in `67, but two combat tours kinda "changed" that outlook into something a little more reality-based. It's nice to have utopian fantasies, but reality is what we work with. I've also seen the results of socialism/communism first hand and up close. The democrats, at least the more strident of their membership, seem hell-bent on landing us in that camp. If it ever comes to that, I'll put my tiger stripes back on, pick up my M-40, and hit the bushes again.

Politics is a place where no matter what you do, you're gonna step on toes. If it's done intentionally, shame on you: if it's done accidentally, shame on me. We've become so polarized we're frequently at each other's throats, and I'm always reminded that an armed society is a polite society. Maybe we should revisit the Code Duello. That might have prevented that idiot from flipping off my wife the other day for having a McCain sticker on her car-she's an excellent shot! Civil discourse needs to be just that-civil. We've allowed the discourse to become very uncivil, beginning in the `60's.

So, does that give you an idea why I choose to be a republican? I don't vote the party line, by the way, but study the candidate's voting record to determine if they align with my values. That's why I did not vote for Obama, although I'm not a fan of McCain, either.
 
#53 ·
Second, I'm a Republican because I believe in the values of the original party; individuality, self-reliance, small government, and self-responsibility, and equality. I don't buy into the rubbish about government being able to do it better than private industry (hell, just look at the post office!), and I certainly don't need somebody else telling me what I "should" do or feel/think.
cheers to that! :beer2:

it's too bad that it seems "conservative" means cultural conservative to most people, and most "republicans" are playing that card instead of being true fiscal conservatives. :beathead:
 
#59 ·
Alex-Merci! All I was hoping for was a few logical , thought out, respectful responses, which we have here now.

Salmo-I agree to a point, and I'll throw in values, percepetion and exposure/respect of others. I was raised in the woods (way outs of Whatcom county) spent some time as a Marine, and now am going to school and working Ft in heavy civil/structures, yet when I go down to the river I'm nothing like the people that had a very similar childhood, and current career. Why is that?



Evan- Here's Chomsky talking about the passing of conservative William F. Buckley, and how todays republicans (Wolfowitz, Cheney, etc.) are actually Radical nationalists and not conservatives.
You may also find some value in reading ( or not) an author such as Chalmers Johnson. Though he is attacked often as being a liberal, I've found he's done a decent job of detailing the faults of both parties, and can explain much of the turmoil that America has been involved in for the past hundred or so years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson

I can say that though I can relate to or agree with some conservative values, the current republican party and candidates are nothing I can support. I'm definately a conservative when it comes to fish, wild lands, and open spaces. ;)

Les- Cheers for your perspective, all of your work on the conservation front, and a big thanks for your service! It really boggles some minds when you tell them you were in the USMC, and vote liberally eh?

Cpl Hamilton MWSS 473 Det-B
 
#56 ·
In regards to the question about why a majority of fly fishermen seem to be liberal and conventional gear anglers tend to be conservative, I'd guess it's education related. On average, those with more education tend to be liberal, and those with less are more likely to be conservative. I've read that more than once but don't recall where. If that conclusion is accurate, it correlates to my observation that fly guys seem to on average have a higher level of education than conventional gear folks. If that's the case, it's reasonable to expect that the fly fishing fraternity has more liberals than conservatives. Fortunately there's enough cross-over that neither group suffers the effects of homogenous boredom.

Sg
 
#135 ·
I have never heard this, only the opposite, that Republicans tend to be better educated.

"Yet Republicans in the general public tend to be better educated than Democrats. In the 1994-2002 General Social Surveys (GSS), Republicans have over 6/10ths of a year more education on average than Democrats. Republicans also have a higher final mean educational degree. Further, Republicans scored better than Democrats on two word tests in the GSS--a short vocabulary test and a modified analogies test.

If one breaks down the data by party affiliation and political orientation, the most highly educated group is conservative Republicans, who also score highest on the vocabulary and analogical reasoning tests. Liberal Democrats score only insignificantly lower than conservative Republicans. The least educated subgroups are moderate and conservative Democrats, who also score at the bottom (or very near the bottom) on vocabulary and analogy tests.
" From http://www.pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/archives/014093.php

See Also:
Democrats and Republicans
http://people-press.org/report/124/republicans

While I did see some articles that stated democrats were more educated none of them provided ANY evidence, they seemed to be more opinion than based on any research.
 
#57 ·
I am a liberal person and part of a long-standing family of Democrats. In my lifetime I :

Joined the Marine Corps during the Korea Campaign, served honorably and upon discharge earned my college education with help from the GI Bill.

Was born at the end of the Great Depression, which was caused by the folly of a conservative president, Herbert Hoover. Much of the tax and spend effort of President Roosevelt was to get people working via the WPA, CCC, etc. It was however World War II that actually brought us out of of the Depression; a victory which U.S citizens paid for with the loss of more than 400,000 brave warriors, mostly young.

I did not do well financially under President Regaon since his supply-side economics made the rich folks richer and took any wealth the working class had gained. He did win the Cold War without firing a shot and I thus vindicate him to that extent.

When Bush the Elder took over he ended his rein in shame with the looting of the savings and loans, which were bailed out with a loan from the citizens (sound familiar?). Us average folks didn't do well on that fiasco.

I did pretty darned well during the Clinton Administration. I enjoyed profitable and reasonably rewarding work and while I didn't like his sellout to overseas companies, he did at least leave United States out of debt and with a surpluis. Oh yes, the rich folks did pretty darned well also.

W and his robber baron cronies started the wrong war, ran a balanced budget into the largest deficit in history, allowed Wall Street to run completely wild and unregulated thus causing the largest upward movent of wealth and subsiquent crash since the Great Depression. And then he wanted to give the Wall Street thieves a check for fixing things without any oversight.

To date in my lifetime I have never experienced a Republican Administration (except Eisenhower who was a moderate Republican and a fly-fisherman) that ever improved my fishing, protected any of our land or worked to make my life better as a person on Main Street.
I'm not looking for an argument here. We remain a free people (one of our rights that I fought for) who can vote for whomever they wish and use any rationale that they deem appropriate and responsible. Like others on this thread I am simply stating my choice and how I arrived at it.
I have cast my vote for Barak Obama.
Les Johnson
 
#60 ·
Cpl Hamilton MWSS 473 Det-B
Thank you. I guess it would be fair to call me a moderate Democrat. I'm also an advocate of the two party system and always have been. I'm also a believer in fairness within our population; top to bottom. Like yourself, party affiliation notwithstanding, I am always ready to stand up for my country in a very ground level sense. I have also never been bashful about speaking out on issues that I contend are right, or wrong. It is our country and a great one that I've always believed in, no matter which side of an issue I may come down on.
I am also a conservative when it comes to the stewardship of our country. By that I mean that we need to conserve the natural resources that we still have.
Semper Fi.
Les
 
#62 ·
Viewing this thread just resulted in a Palin banner advert at the top of my screen. :hmmm: I have to say that all the talk about her being hot is completely unfounded.

Certainly an interesting election, not going to be fun for whichever candidate wins. I'm ready for the ads to quit. That governor's race is something seriously petty- makes me not want to vote for either of them their adds are so bad.
 
#63 ·
Headstrong1, I got a bit of a chuckle when I saw that ad pop up also.... let Chris get his advertising money wherever he can! Hell, even FOX runs Obamas ads constantly, Mr. Birch...oops, I meant murdoch, knows which side the bread is buttered! As far as Palin being "hot", to each their own, but Decker had the best idea: put her in the 'women in waders' calendar, then decide! God, that is so sexist, but it's all in good fun [ unless of course your the "First Dude". Just make sure the RNC doesn't buy her a set of Simms G4's or it'll be all over the news tomorrow. Montana is a red state, let Simms donate them! I wasn't going to chime in on this thread, but being a left leaning independant, you never know!
 
#66 ·
constructeur and Les, nothing makes an HM and son of two jarheads happier than to see some jarheads getting together for a good chat. I'm still a history major and closer to the definition of a republican than anything else. I believe over the decades that party has drifted astray. I cannot understand how GW got elected because his general life experiences and intellect, or lack thereof, stun me. I've cast my vote, perhaps for the lesser of two bad choices, but that is not my point of writing...this is:

Thank you both for your service, and to those others who have served, serve now, or will serve in the future. Thank you both for stewardship of our nation in whatever manner needed and for continuing that now with a precious natual resource.
 
#67 ·
Well I'm not voting anytime soon for any dam liberals!!

Last time I did that we got No Child Left Behind and the Prescription Drug Bill!!! AND the SOB talks a Carter and sends troops into two countries to build Democracies!!! I don't care about building democracies in countries that are still in the middle ages.

Give me a break. I'll take a pass on both of those left-wingers!

I was worried that McCain would win and actually implement his lefty ideas. Now I'm worried that Obama will win and the Democrats will implement a socialist workers paradise. I have seen how well those work.

In any case, there are going to be millions of pissed off voters in 2010. That will be a interesting election.

If I had two million dollars laying around I would move to New Zealand.
 
#68 ·
Well I'm not voting anytime soon for any dam liberals!!

Last time I did that we got No Child Left Behind and the Prescription Drug Bill!!! AND the SOB talks a Carter and sends troops into two countries to build Democracies!!! I don't care about building democracies in countries that are still in the middle ages.

Give me a break. I'll take a pass on both of those left-wingers!

I was worried that McCain would win and actually implement his lefty ideas. Now I'm worried that Obama will win and the Democrats will implement a socialist workers paradise. I have seen how well those work.

In any case, there are going to be millions of pissed off voters in 2010. That will be a interesting election.

If I had two million dollars laying around I would move to New Zealand.
Geez, guess now you'll see how many of us have felt for the past 8 years! With the current Idiot in Charge (aka 'The Shrub') and Darth Cheney (who really runs the shit...)

As far as pissed off voters, who has to wait until 2010.. there's plenty on both sides of the aisle and turnout should be high.. at least I hope so! I've been pissed off for the past two presidental elections with the voting crap that has gone on in Florida and other states. I would like to think these problems have been "fixed", but I'm sceptical at best and expect that there will be problems...

But until late Tuesday (election day) it won't be over, even if it feels like it's over.. I will be casting my vote in person. (http://barackobama.com)

The real scary thing for the Right wingers is how the Supreme Court will change over the next 4 years with potentially three justices being replaced. Good.. imo, however the Right is scared and rightly so!

This year will be the year that the incumbents lose or have the greatest chance to actually lose. Now for our Governor's race and my local congress persons, I don't know what to say... I know who I'll vote for, but am not happy with either party and the terrible political ads and tone of both campaigns! But alas, that's the American "Political" way I guess...

Cynically,
Bill
 
#73 ·
509,

Thanks for supporting the last 8 Years...
I hung in there for as long as I could. Bush did well with Iraq and aid to Africa.

He just did not have the leadership qualities to initiate and win on difficult issues.

His administration identified the Fannie and Freddie mess and he folded when the Democrats objected to any changes.

He had a good energy policy first written in March, 2001. Introduced it four or five times in Congress and never got it pass the Democrats.

Right now the election would have been totally different if he had raised holy hell on those two issues. He should have gone to public and bashed the Democrats for their refusal to face those issues. Being right is only good if you did something about it!!

Nice guy Bush. History will probably judge him a better President than Clinton, but since Clinton is there with Cal Coolidge, Bush might end up with Hoover.
 
#71 ·
I too am greatly disillusioned by the changes within the republicans, but am more so by the shift from the greatness of the old democrats toward a party dominated by screaming socialists. I did two tours at Nha Be and assorted other fun vacation spots. Having seen first-hand what communists do to those who go against the party line, I link socialists and communists under one banner: the only good one is a dead one. It was my honor to fight alongside some of the bravest, most self-sacrificing people I've ever met in our Vietnamese counterparts, and my shame to see them so abandoned by us when it became politically expedient to do so. I see similar things going on now, driven by the left with regard to the Iraq war, and I fear the same results. I want Franklin Raines held to the same standard for "cooking the books" as was Ken Lay-but Raines is a democrat, and apparently not subject to the same scrutiny. I want Hillary's "gifts" of $6,000 pantsuits from this designer in Beverly Hills to be questioned like Palin's $150,000 gifts of clothes from RNC, but I guess that's somehow "different"? I wanted Bush to immediately repudiate the idiots under his command when they were caught doing something wrong, but I didn't see that, either.

Having studied Obama's voting record, listened to his rhetoric, both old and current, I conclude he's a socialist of the first magnitude. He'd attempt to set us on a course which would be the ruin of this nation. I'm not a fan of McCain, but I urge the undecided among us to take a look at the actual voting records of both candidates, and vote accordingly. Your vote is, next to your life, one of the most precious things you have. I've personally seen people blown to bits fighting for the right to cast an honest, fair vote. Those we saw holding up their purple fingers in Iraq are an example of "mission accomplished". If the liberals aren't able to figure that one out, it's their problem.

Sorry for the rant, guys. Too many of my ghosts are surfacing with the principals of this election. I find I retreat to the peace of the stream in order to escape them!
 
#72 ·
I conclude he's a socialist of the first magnitude!
+ a globalist, another thing that isn't exactly awesome in my book. though most people seem oblivious to the whole globalism thing.

and your service, as well as others here, is greatly appreciated by me. though i opted out of going to the air force academy (i had an appointment to attend) and serving myself, i'm not one who takes the work you guys have done for granted.
 
#75 ·
Sadly, this is getting ugly. It is time for a new poll.

How many more years will the Republicans continue to blame Bill Clinton for all of their woes and inadequacies?

a. 4 years

b. 8 years

c. 12 years

d. forever

e. all of the above

No need to respond to this one, we already know the answer is e.:rolleyes:

Ive
 
#78 ·
it's too bad that it seems "conservative" means cultural conservative to most people, and most "republicans" are playing that card instead of being true fiscal conservatives.
Republican party has completely lost its' way. Partly to blame is the last 8 years of Bush and Karl Rove "masterminding" the appeal to the hard right. On items such as the economy...democrats are polling higher than Republicans...are you kidding me? On issues of defense...Obama is polling higher than McCain...are you kidding me???

As a registered republican in an ultra liberal state I live with this crap hourly...forget about daily. The republican party has abadoned its' true base to appeal to folks on the hard right. McCain has run a campaign that is embarrassing. Changing message, not attacking Obama in critical issues...hoping beyond all hope that the Bill Ayers, Joe the Plumber, Redistributor...we don't know who Obama is strategy to win the election.

Let's face it. The Republican Party did not even run a republican in the election.
 
#80 ·
Since this freight train is well on its way to 100 posts worth of whining, stale jokes and girl-fighting (pardon me ladies); lets unwad our Hanes-for-Hers and hear some predictions.

Mine: First off, we could elect a pair of pliers to office and they'd still end up a hero in 4 years. The present state of our economy, etc. is 95% certain to look better, much better, by end of next term. Whoever we put in that chair will reap the benefit of that, regardless of qualifications and the job they do as Prez. When Obama takes office, and I'd love to be wrong about that, it won't be whether an attempt is made, but when and how many. So far, one that I know of...couple of crackpots but others will follow and likely with brains and a bit more organization. Let's not take a wrong turn here...none of us wants to see that happen...hopefully none of us. Regardless of resume' or work performed, Obama goes out an unfortunate hero/legend to be remembered on U.S. currency and street signs. Biden steps in and inherits an 8 year term...remember that pair of pliers?...not a reflection on Biden, just the right place at the right time.

My logic: Obama surviving the attempts and making 8 would have more of a potpourri smell, but U.S. history has some undeniable quirks about it. The numbers work just like baseball, and the sad truth is we're due for a hit.

Your prediction...
 
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