30 lb steelhead on the hoh

Big E

Active Member
#32
I'm not familiar with your fishery...how scarce are 30lb steelhead either wild or hatchery? What's the average size of steelhead? How many fish of this size would you find in the approx 1300 fish that are expected to be gill netted on the Hoh this year?
 
#33
"I do fish for steelhead, only in rivers with hatchery populations."

Then you are the one who is causing more damage. Through solely supporting THE VERY mechanism that legally allowed/continues to allow the near extinction of wild stocks.

What I don't get is your harassment angle. Angling to kill which is harassing a fish in order to be reduced to camp meat. So that is OK? That makes you morally superior? While fishing purely for fun isn't? I will take my odds of a MAXIMUM 1-2% wild incidental fish kill. Considering the state of wild fish right now its going take a while before I kill too many of them.

The most intelligent suggestion would be for you to stop fishing. Would cause you less internal conflict. Your complete support of fish culture pretty much kills any point you had. Let alone your hypocritical "I release most of what I catch" comment.

William

Will,
I take your points and agree with some of what you say. No doubt what i do is hypocritical, not arguing that. I should stop fishing, that would solve the ethical dilemma if i werent going to eat them. When i fish for food, i release what i first catch that i wont keep if under sized. Then stop fishing after i've taken what i need. Fishing to kill to eat is not harassment i dont get your angle on that. Fishing for the thrill of C+R is simply satisfying a strange desire not related to survival.

The very mechansim that has created the near extinction of our steelhead, as far as we know, has been logging, commercial by-catch and over fishing, and destruction of spawning habitat. Having hatchery fish in a river is an illusion of a healthy river but i am not sure how it contributes to wild stock extinction.

In BC we have very few hatchery rivers and the wild stocks may be in worse condition than the WA rivers (at least south of the DEAN).

In any case, my original point was not to argue my superiority, it was to convince that chosing C+R over bonking in general is not ethically superior. While the bonker of the 30lber maybe shouldnt have killed that fish, i dont think we can claim superiority just because we C+R as a rule, because what/you do can be just as harmful...
 

Jeremy Floyd

fly fishing my way through life
#34
Tom I wasn't saying the person responsible is without blame. I think it is upsetting on several levels. That said, it is like bitching about a guy going 59 in a 60 zone when it is dark and stormy. Some folks may feel it's too fast and dangerous but they are within their legal rights.

I find it far more upsetting that the legal option is there, than the fact that someone actually did it.
 
#35
I'm not familiar with your fishery...how scarce are 30lb steelhead either wild or hatchery? What's the average size of steelhead? How many fish of this size would you find in the approx 1300 fish that are expected to be gill netted on the Hoh this year?
You'll probably have to ask the nates that buy the mono nets, I would guess 6 and 1/2 inch mesh would just about catch everything but the king salmon.
 
#37
"In any case, my original point was not to argue my superiority"... that's good because you failed at it! " it was to convince that chosing C+R over bonking in general is not ethically superior." You lost that one also.... A DEAD NATIVE FISH IS JUST THAT....DEAD, BUT IF IT WAS RELEASED IT HAD A GOOD CHANCE OF SPAWNING ONE MORE TIME! While the bonker of the 30lber maybe shouldnt have killed that fish," i dont think we can claim superiority" ...... nobody is talking 'superiority" except you....Gee, we have diametrically opposed thumbs, kinda makes us 'superior' in the animal kingdom,,, but for some that doesn't translate into the common sense of trying to perpetuate an endanjeresd specie!When the last one is gone, it's lights out, sayanora, no mas... end of the fucking road!
 
#39
No proof, no pictures...why all the drama?? The original post from Pisca looks like rumor at best. It looks even more like someone stirring the pot.



Is the fishing really that slow for you all that this is what we do?
 

inland

Active Member
#40
Manimal,

In the US hatchery fish were the mechanism allowing overharvest and extractive habitat uses. Our fish were gone over 100 years ago in nets. The solution to the problem were hatchery fish. Instead of reducing harvest we would create more fish. Instead of responsible logging we would mitigate through hatcheries. People were fighting the destruction back then too. Hatcheries were the legal foundation for allowing everything that destroyed the wild fish. I also assumed 'Vancouver' was the Washington version not BC. Which you would see first hand how hatcheries were (and continue to be) substituted for habitat and responsible harvest.

I can't argue about there being a 'completion' when fishing for harvest. Serves a purpose. Just not when flyfishing for steelhead. Which, I assumed, we are talking about flyfishing. Sure flyfishing puts fish on the BBQ but seems like a rediculous way to go about it if comparing to mans survival. I see black and white. If my survival depended on eating a steelhead the last thing I would do is angle for them with rod and reel. Since you are using rod and reel angling 'for pleasure' (and you know it) to kill...that means you are harassing your food before you kill it. Goes against the crux of your arguement to bash on those which are up in arms, as they should be, over the DIRECT harvest of wild steelhead in the lower 48.

The point of people gripes over this killed Hoh fish is pretty simple. If a fly angler caught 100 30# Hoh steelhead odds are, at most, 2 of them MIGHT die. It took this guy one fish. Which isn't fair to the fish or other anglers. What man did eons ago, through evolution, has nothing to do with modern pressures. Blatantly put... IF the fish were still abundant enough to allow direct harvest I would be all for it. As it is they aren't. And we are left to play with them.

William
 

Keaten LaBrel

Formerly Tyinbugs
#41
look lets face it, catch and release is no more ethical than catch and kill, in fact it may be worse. If you are really concerned about steelhead you should not fish them and advocate for a complete closure on all angling for them.
C+R really is nothing more than wildlife harassment. You can say whatever you want about us c+r guys protecting our rivers, but when it comes down to it, it may just be the lesser of two evils. Let's enter a realm of reality here.
WOW...that may be the dumbest thing i've ever heard!!:beathead:
 
#42
Was on the upper Hoh today and it was confirmed 32+# native. Also saw a driftboat land a 12+# native using a knotted net, holding the SH out of the water so 4, 25 to 30 ish old gear guys could have their picture taken. I didn't make a fuzz, 4 young to 1 small senior, bad odds. No hook-up for me. Low water but a beautiful day.
 
#43
The angler was from England not P.T. I'm also told he was not properly educated in the plight of wild steelhead. Not sure who was guiding him, but for what it's worth, he apparently felt horrible when many other anglers sadly watched as he took home the dead wild fish. Unfortunately the regs say it's legal. The fish was caught on the swing...amazingly. Water is extremely low and apparently the fish was already dark. May not have even had a chance to do it's thing...

I was also told that the mouth at the park boundry was filled with bank fishermen this morning. Also unfortunately....the were hearding ascending fish back down into the pool/estuary/ocean. Blocking their run as they tried to get up the one and only riffle leading to their spawning grounds.

I don't want to offend anyone who's posted their dissapointment in the angler because I think it is ultimately his responsibility. However, IMHO, I do think the only way to get to no kill is through public awareness.
 

FT

Active Member
#44
William,

Thank you for your post for as usual, you cut through the crap and spin and put the issue on the table as it should be. Kudos to you my friend.
 
#45
look lets face it, catch and release is no more ethical than catch and kill, in fact it may be worse. If you are really concerned about steelhead you should not fish them and advocate for a complete closure on all angling for them.
C+R really is nothing more than wildlife harassment. You can say whatever you want about us c+r guys protecting our rivers, but when it comes down to it, it may just be the lesser of two evils. Let's enter a realm of reality here.
Intellectual honesty is refreshing, especially when it illuminates irony and hypocrisy. This is a blood sport. Pain is inflicted, stress is induced for our enjoyment and sense of accomplishment. This is what we...I do.

"This above all, -to thine own self be true; And it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man."

That being said, the killing of such a grand fish was unfortunate.

Eric
 

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