Outcast vs. Dave Scadden vs. Buck's

BDD

Active Member
#16
What Kent said (forgot the "t" in his name in my earlier post). He is usually right on when it comes to product evaluation etc. and explains it from a material and processing point of veiw. I'll follow up with a practical and common sense point of view.

Take a look at the whitewater industry (Sotar, Maravia, NRS etc.). None of the leading pontoon makers use a bladder system with a zipper shell. Aire used to in their most economical pontoons. Not sure anymore. Think about zippers and all the things that can go wrong with them. They break, get debris in causing difficult zipping etc, you overinflate which can cause stretching on the zippers. The high quality bladderless pontoons are much more resistant to changes in temperature and altitude although you still need to be careful.

Years ago when Scadden first came out and was doing the outdoor shows and selling pontoon boats rather than his new U-boat design, he offered bladderless and zippered boats. The bladderless boats were substantially more, say in the $500 to $600 range more. That is because they are better boats because the material is better and cost more to make. There is a reason why all the economical pontoon boats sold at the big box stores are in the hundreds of dollars and regularly go through changes every few years where as the high quality whitewater pontoons are sometimes in the thousands of dollars and bascially remain unchanged year after year. The materials and design are much better.

Recently I sold some tubes to Jeff Bandy, fellow WFF. He posted about it on the main forum. One comment he shared with me was his experience with the bladder and shell pontoons he had before and the fact that the valve opening was often difficult to find and air up because it somtimes became diffucult to line up both valve openings. The valves in Maxxon tubes are better and can be replaced if needed. Not sure about the cloth shell and bladder pontoons.

Another issue is the bladder can become scrunched or squished at the tips inside the outer shell thereby not fully inflating and causing you to pull them out of the cover to take out the blockage.

There is a market for low and high quality boats just like everything else.
 
#17
Great comments, BDD. I am totally for bladderless for all these reasons. Less worrisome and much easier. And now, with the Scadden boats, you can be frameless as well. It's the future and the way to go (IMO). It's basically what Watermaster and Water Strider have been doing successfully for years. Now, if we didn't have to worry about other bladders when out in the lake...
 

Blue

Active Member
#18
Three of the best pontoon makers out there, so here is my breakdown Outcast under 1200 are all Asian made now,
The standing platform is smaller on the IR models than the Scadden, big issue to me, the bigger the better.

Outcast IR 9
BOAT SPECS
Inflated Size: 54" x 9'
Tube Diameter: 16"
Fabric: 600 PVC/1200 PVC
Material Weight: 28/31 oz/sq.yd.
AireCell Material: Vinyl
Seam Construction: Welded
Warranty: 5
Valve Type: 2-Summit
Weight: 69 lbs.
Load Capacity: 400 lbs.
Frame: 6-pc aluminum
Anchor System: Included
Motor Mount: Included
Oar Type: 7' 2-piece


Bucks Bag The Bronco Extreme series
18” diameter pontoons that are rotary-welded with a rugged 22oz.
PVCenamel coated polyester cover and a 100% polyurethane bladder.
The stainless steel frame
padded seat, padded armrests and
a roomy “Seaboard” cargo deck for coolers and extra gear.
The standard anchor system features our patented
Line-Lock for easy anchor release and retrieval. 7’ aluminum
breakdown oars, bronze oar-locks
Weight Capcity = 375lbs.
Inflated size = 9' (108") Long x 57" Wide
Shipping size = 52" x 24" x 10"
Shipping Weight = 55lbs.

Dave Scadden
Specifications:
Length: 9'
Width: 58"
Weight: 64 lbs.
Capacity: 600 lbs.
Pontoon Diameter: 15"
Frame: X7 Aqua-Lok XL
Anchor System: Thru the frame Frame
Material: Alcoa 6061 T6 Aluminum Frame
Finish: Hammerite powdercoat Pontoons: Finest whitewater grade material in the world
Bladders: Pure domestic urethane
Valves: Halkey Roberts
Pockets: IQ system
Oars: Dave Scadden Custom Aluminum
Oar Locks: Naval bronze
Oar Rights: Standard
Seats: Custom padded
Whitewater rating: Class IV
Warranty: 15 years
Made in the U.S.A.




I Know why I went with a Scadden ;-)
 

Freestone

Not to be confused with freestoneangler
#19
Sorry guys, but Aire catarafts are and always have been bladdered tubes. However, comparing a cheap, PVC bladdered, sewn PVC shelled-tube (most cheap pontoon boats) with an Aire cataraft tube that has a urethane bladder and welded PVC shell is comparing apples and oranges. Their high-end Outcast PAC tubes are made just like the Aire tubes; the cheaper models are not.
 
#20
Outcast and Bucks bags are both sold through pro-shops!
If you have a problem take it back to the shop and they will deal with it.
With all of the comments about customer service in regards to Scadden boats, that would persuade me to deal with my local fly shop.
I have an Outcast that I bought from a local fly shop 8yrs ago the bladder was pinched from a factory defect. The fly shop made one call and a new bladder was at his shop in less than a week. Outcast told me to keep the defective bladder. I repaired it and now have a spare. AND the shop owner loaned me his personal boat until mine was repaired.
Try that with mail order.
Just sayin'.
jesse
 

Blue

Active Member
#21
I have never had any issue with any of my Scaddens, and had allot of them in my family. But then they are made 35 minutes from my house.
 

Go Fish

Language, its a virus
#22
One of the big issues for me is the amount of time it takes
to assemble the craft. With most of the Scadden products
you will spend alot more time getting it togeather than
with the Outcast products. No big deal if you keep it
assembled but I don't as a rule. Then there is the customer
service issues that most I know have experienced with Scadden.

Go with the Outcast.

Dave
 

Blue

Active Member
#23
Fair enough...can you take your Outcast on a Plane? ;-)
Curios though, what is the difference setting up a NFO and an Outcast frame?
 
#24
Blue, you and I just think alike. I can't imagine there is much difference; I never had issues with my Madison River. Now, of course, there is no delay with a Challenger or the coming Assault.
 

Kent Lufkin

Remember when you could remember everything?
#25
Sorry guys, but Aire catarafts are and always have been bladdered tubes. However, comparing a cheap, PVC bladdered, sewn PVC shelled-tube (most cheap pontoon boats) with an Aire cataraft tube that has a urethane bladder and welded PVC shell is comparing apples and oranges. Their high-end Outcast PAC tubes are made just like the Aire tubes; the cheaper models are not.
Thanks for the correction Sue. I should have checked Aire's web site before just taking someone's word that their tubes were bladderless.

K
 
#26
I have the Outcat PAC 1000 works great. I have a buddy that bought the Bad Cat 10ft they use the same frame as the Outcast PAC 1000. My buddy wish he would of bought the Outcast. Badcat won't fit in his full size long bed GMC really needs a trailer the PAC1000 fits in the bottom of the bed of your truck. I don't know about the other boat, But didn't Dave work of Outcast back in the day?
 

Blue

Active Member
#27
I believe he did. That is cool that a boat will fit in the back fully inflated, but on the other hand I like a wide boat for stability. So, slight deflate works or as you mentioned...a trailer.
 
#28
Blue question for you: what valves are Dave using on his boats? My Bro-in-law has an X-5 and he has the standard HR valves. I've read a couple posts that seemed confusing: either the owner is confused or his way of relaying the problem is. I must say that I have never heard or read more BS crying pukes on all these little problems that most idiots could figure out in a weekend! I am not kidding: do a search on this website for the last year about all the little BS that has been wriitten: come on guys grow a pair! figure out how to fix some basic stuff! Just earlier in this thread: the way this guy relayed his info, you would think he had never heard ONE good thing about Scadden, his boats, or his buisness practice! The only place I have heard anything negative is on this site, never talking to the actual owners on the lakes or rivers...wonder why?!
 

Blue

Active Member
#29
My X5 is the older model with the frame that has removable foot pegs. Different material on the bladderless toon as well. It has Halkey Roberts. But my Escape and the now Renegade have the BRAVO valves. Button in the middle. Push once open, push again close. Nice but touchy and you MUST remember to put the cap on them.
 
#30
WOW! I can hardly believe using anything except a HR valve. BTW, thanks for the reply and info. Sure doesn't seem to be a better mouse trap?! I wonder what the reason for going away from HR valves? Aren't the Escape and Renegade made the same, that is bladderless with Poly Urethane? Possibly it is the thickness of those two boats? I wonder if the Assault will have these new and not improved valves? Are you reading this, Bill??!! PS What if you lose the CAPS?? Do you trash Dave on one website and then try to contact him on another looking for a supplier??? or do they come with spares??? Sorry, I could not resist that one!!