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Sage and Simms at Costco?

39K views 210 replies 93 participants last post by  fredaevans 
#1 ·
Seen it today. Z axis 5 weight and some Tree-fiddy waders. In an upright glass case, like the rock and roll hall of fame would put an Elvis outfit in :rofl:
 
#77 ·
The answer is on the Blanton site. Jamie Lyle, the West Coast Sage rep responds with:

Woody,

I can only speak for Sage and tell you that there was a missing shipment of rods destined for an authorized reseller that has somehow ended up at Costco. It is a very limited quantity and they are definitely not an authorized dealer for Sage. I suspect it is the same for Simms.

Thanks,
Jamie
 
#78 ·
I spoke with representatives from both Simms and Sage today. Both assured me that this was a ‘grey market’ deal where an overseas distributor purchased product that was intended for other markets then intercepted the shipments, and routed them to Costco.

SIMMS: Simms has authorized their Washington sales rep to purchase any and all remaining Simms products at full retail as they have no desire to be in Costco. This is probably already done.

SAGE: While not as decisively as Simms, have also assured me that they are ‘selectively’ purchasing the remaining inventory and also have no desire to sell their product in Costco stores.

Anil
 
#79 ·
I stopped by the Worley Bugger Fly Shop this afternoon as they carry both Sage and Simms. The Simms rep talked with Steve Worley and confirmed that Simms will be pulling out all the product from Costco shelves. There was a reasonable explanation for the mishap, similar to some of the ideas posted here. He had e-mailed and got a response from the Sage rep and it appears there was not going to be immediate action from Sage to pull their product.
 
#86 ·
I’m not sure why anyone would be outraged at this. We all lament the damage done to the independent fly shops by the economy & wholesaler’s policies. Yet, most independents now have their own web sites, these sites inevitably poach consumers who would otherwise visit their local fly shop for their needs. I can think of two site sponsors who offer to pay the tax on internet orders. Who is this policy aimed at? Certainly not customers from out of state.

At times we've all talked about "buying local" as being some kind of moral imperative, that the responsibility of our local shops survival is on us. I’m don’t believe that’s wholly correct. One could say they're cannibalizing themselves, and they'd be right.

I support the local shops because I genuinely like the experience of dealing with a small business. That rapport, banter, service and knowledge will never be replaced by an online store or mega store. The day that's lost will be the end of the small shop.

I just realized the irony of posting this on this board as I looked up and see a Sierra Trading Post ad for big savings on Lamson, Sage, etc...
 
#93 ·
Yes, Marty, please tell us. Because I am very familiar with many outdoor brands and their "factories" in Viet Nam and China. Fly rods, waders, wading boots...the QA on those isn't that much different than the QA from, er, let's see, all the high end dog and cat food that hit the US market a few years ago which ended up killing hundreds of animals and tons of recalls. Or how about the toys? Or....it's all about the profit margin. Sorry. I don't think Sage or Simms is that much different. And I own products from both lines and enjoy what I own. But because they have tight regs on MSRP doesn't mean the quality is all that much better.
 
#94 ·
Kim -

I am simply not going to waste my time on-line explaining the nuances of development cycles, inventory control and product positioning in the marketplace on an on-line forum. If you ever see me at a WWF event I will be happy with talk to you.

It sounds like you are intimately familiar with those "factories" and probably spend a lot of time in Asia. Hell, I bet you have an apartment in HCM - don't you? You obviously see an opportunity in the marketplace since everyone is producing such junk, and since you have answers on how it could be done better. So why don't you leverage everything that you have - your retirement, house, vehicles, savings, etc. bring out your own brand? You obviously have the sourcing contacts and have spent time in those "factories." It sounds like you area a master of design and fabric development. I say go for it!

You boys play nice now.
 
#97 ·
For those that do not believe the aforementioned manufactures would not sell to Costco and for those that believe Costco only purchases items that they can purchase in massive quantities at heavy discounts, the following article will open your eyes to some of Costco's buying practices.

Aggressive and Uncaring Methods
This is part of an article written by Elise Eden & Wendy Berner titled "At What Price Costco?" The article was published in the April 10-16 issue of Willamette Weekly.

When Bob Laman's company started out seven years ago, it sold the rooftop carriers through a toll-free phone service. Within months, Laman says, Packasport had developed a small but loyal group of customers, who loved the luxury item and its wide variety of options. As sales grew, the company began to sell the storage systems at automotive outlets and high-end sporting goods stores. These retailers were chosen, Laman says, because they could maintain attractive floor displays of the six Packasport models and afford to train customer service representatives in the finer points about the features and custom work available with each carrier.

In January 1995, a Costco buyer approached Packasport and asked to carry the company's rooftop storage systems in its warehouse stores, Laman says. Packasport refused, giving two reasons. First, the company was concerned that Costco couldn't provide adequate customer service for the specialized equipment. Second, Costco admitted that it would sell the cartop carriers below the manufacturer's suggested retail price. This, in Packasport's mind, could sully the product's reputation and anger its regular retailers. Those retailers would be so upset about Costco offering the same product at a discount, Laman says, that they might decide it wasn't worth the effort to order any more Packasport merchandise. "For a small company, [selling to Costco] destroys the market," he says. "The last place we'd sell to is Costco." Laman thought that was the end of the conversation. He was wrong. "Telling Costco you won't sell directly to them," he says, "is never the end of the story."

Soon after Costco's inquiry, Packasport received a large order request from a small sporting goods shop in Seattle, which Laman won't identify. The size of the order seemed out of place given the size of the store. "It raised an immediate red flag in my mind," Laman says.

Laman was so curious that he asked one of his other retailers to call the shop's owner, who confirmed that Costco had approached him about getting Packasport's basic model and that the products his store had ordered would indeed end up on Costco's shelves. Packasport refused to fill the shop's order.

Several months later, the Bend manufacturer received an order from New Delhi-based Indian Distributors for 104 carriers. Suspicious, Packasport made the small export company sign a contract stipulating that the Indian firm would not sell any Packasport products to any stores in the United States. The cartop carriers were to be picked up at Packasport's small Ohio manufacturing plant, loaded onto semitrailers and trucked to Los Angeles, where the shipment would go through customs and end up in India.

The shipment, however, never arrived at customs. Within three days after the products left Ohio, the Packasport System 90 rooftop carrier was on shelves at Costco warehouses in Oregon and five other Western states.

Laman didn't find out right away. It was only after handfuls of warranty response cards, which accompany each Packasport cartop carrier, started pouring into the Bend office from destinations as far away as Wyoming and Montana. "It was kind of like a little mystery," he says.

Even though he suspected Costco right away, Laman was baffled. His company had done everything within its power to keep Packasport products away from the discount chain. He drove to the Bend Costco and walked straight down the automotive aisle. There, sandwiched between haphazardly stacked truck storage boxes and an occasional radial tire, sat his product--only partially displayed and still in the original shipping boxes. He stood motionless on the cement floor as he stared at the price tag: $499.99, almost 33 percent below the suggested retail price of $745. He took a minute to remind himself that this wasn't a personal attack, just a business technique. But still, he says, "They're not the kind of business partner I'd like to have."

Costco officials won't comment specifically about their dealings with Packasport, but top brass don't deny that their company often obtains products by using what it euphemistically calls "diversion." "Our goal is to bring high-quality products to consumers at the lowest price," says Richard Galanti, Costco executive vice president and chief financial officer, from his Issaquah, Wash., office. "We try to buy directly from manufacturers, but in instances where they refuse, we buy through a third party--legally." Galanti estimates that about 4 percent of the goods in Costco are diverted, but a number of retailers are convinced that the figure is closer to 12 percent. At an average of 4,000 products per warehouse store, that means that anywhere from 160 to 480 brand-name products on Costco's shelves at any given time are there without the express approval of their manufacturers.

This should scare the you-know-what out of all small business owners. Costco is certainly not the first to obtain their products through diversion, but they are certainly the first to do it in such a manner. Small businesses must be able to control their market to compete with large corporations. The way they compete is by keeping their products out of the bottom-end sales bracket. The advantage of large corporations is that they can produce lots of products for a very low price, a price that small businesses can't match. The key is to find a niche in an existing market or create an entirely new one that operates on variables other than the bottom dollar.

Using Packasport as an example, that business is only successful because it has found a market where they are sheltered. By selling to the upper-middle class outdoor types, their product is evaluated on presentation, customer service, and sign value. When Costco acquires this product, they destroy its presentation by leaving it in the shipping box, customer service is non-existent, and the low price makes it just another car top carrier. Costco has taken it out of its market where could do well and dropped it down to the bottom-dollar market where the only thing that counts is the price tag. Small businesses can never compete in this market so Costco's actions destroy small businesses while fueling large corporations. The effect that this could have is frightening. If power-boxes like Costco continue to spread and consumers continue to only be concerned with getting the lowest price, small business will suffer greatly. Say "hello" to monopolies, larger corporations, more powerful corporations, homogenization of products, and an ever growing lower-middle class. View Original Text in Willamette Weekly
 
#103 ·
Skip the YouTube junk and read the most informative post of this thread. Obviously Costco isn't the only retailer that does stuff like this (i.e. - "The Evil Empire" - rhymes with Ball-smart!)...

Thank you for sharing!
 
#108 ·
Here is my two cents. I buy my fly fishing gear from local shops. I like supporting local businesses. I will not however berate Cosco for selling sage or simms. WTF.. I really doubt that there are a single one of us that does not shop at Walmart, Costco, McDonalds etc etc. All these companies go to a manufacturer and pretty much dictate what they are going to buy a product for. This reduction in price that they buy from the manufacturer gets handed on to the consumer. I don't agree with it but it is what it is. The bottom line is, we are all guilty of wanting a quality product for less than what it is possible to get it at our locally owned store.
 
#109 ·
Sad but true. Well put John. :thumb:

Most "skate" around the topic, but that is what happens when capitalism goes wrong (as someone has already stated). However, I will continue to buy only from local shops regardless of the price.
 
#112 ·
How does a shipment go "missing"? "Hey Bob, did you deliver that shipment of Rods to Terry's Fly Shop?" "Yeah, but I got lost and it was getting late, so I just dropped it off at Costco."
 
#113 ·
Very easy. For bulk shipments they sometimes use a fvreight forwarder. A palletized load has been known to be put in the wrong trailer and isn't discovered until its unloaded at wrond destination (or until product that's mismarked is picked up and found to be wrong product).

In this scenerio the company acting as middlemen to get Costco the product may claim non redceipt to keep their buying status with Simms and Sage. In todays world its easier to bust them but there is always someone who thinks they can get away with murder.
 
#115 ·
Either Simms/Sage are lying, or Simms/Sage need to cease doing business with the distributor in question. In either case, Costco smells fishy to me. My opinion of them has dropped a few notches after reading this thread.
 
#119 ·
A comment on the AnglingTrade article was that Simms and Sage should refuse to honor the warranties on purchases from other than authorized dealers. Let the buyers take their leaking waders or broken rods back to Costco and let Costco explain.
 
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