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Sage and Simms at Costco?

39K views 210 replies 93 participants last post by  fredaevans 
#1 ·
Seen it today. Z axis 5 weight and some Tree-fiddy waders. In an upright glass case, like the rock and roll hall of fame would put an Elvis outfit in :rofl:
 
#125 ·
Costco is the socially acceptable Wal-Mart. If your concerned about your local economy, don't shop there. If your into free-trade, get the executive membership.
 
#147 ·
Gearhead, it's not that at all. I could care less if they did. The problem is the method they went about getting the stock. They do this to TONS of people, not just fishing. The stigma that comes with Costco cheapens a product. Doubt anyone who deals with any industries would argue that.
 
#127 ·
I have always wondered why so many fly fishers (not all) are so willing to spend many hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this and that esoteric reels and rods, even waders and other gear. But when it comes to flies, nope. Not for these peoples fly's, they want those to be cheap...why? I really stress the reel part of the equation lately. Why do you need and even want a nine hundred dollar reel to go trout fishing with?

Little wonder Costco wants in the action. And yes, flyshops should have hotdogs and cokes, oughtta be a law on that one, no? But charge extra for mustard--- profit baby , pay the rent even!
 
#129 ·
I have always wondered why so many fly fishers (not all) are so willing to spend many hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this and that esoteric reels and rods, even waders and other gear. But when it comes to flies, nope. Not for these peoples fly's, they want those to be cheap...why? I really stress the reel part of the equation lately. Why do you need and even want a nine hundred dollar reel to go trout fishing with?
Because boys like toys, and those toy purchases tend to be irrational rather than practical. Guys buy outrageously expensive stuff like Harleys, sports cars, cigar collections, wine collections, scotch collections, Rolexes, fine shotguns, and much more for largely irrational reasons. The list of stuff a guy can buy at stupidly high prices is endless, and most of it is overkill if you approach such purchases from a strictly rational, functional position. But it's fun, and really really good stuff is cool.
 
#135 ·
Thought this article would add to the flavor of this discussion (about outsourcing manufacturing of outdoor equipment or keeping them in the states)
Thanks for sharing Kim. This sentence in the story caught my attention:

"Scott decided in 2001 to abandon the fight for mass-market share and the strategy of growing ever larger."​

That seems to point to a fundamental question: How much (growth, profit, market share, money, . . . ) is enough?

Is (more, bigger, cheaper, . . .) always better?

K
 
#137 ·
Another great story on this is Timbuk2 bags (you know, those "hip" messenger bags being the last thing you see as someone mows you down with their no-gear bike on 3rd and James in Seattle?). For years Timbuk2 made their canvas bags in San Francisco. As they gained in popularity, they gave more choices in materials, colors, sizes (the big is better idea). But they were still proudly made in the US. However, "growth strategies" prevailed and in the mid-2000s, the started having their bags made overseas except for the "custom made" ones you can order on-line. Filson is another example. Their CEO is from Patagonia (the company, not Argentina). And now, some of their products have the "imported" in the description (don't go nuts on me guys, I said some of their products...). Chaco was mentioned in the article but they, too, now manufacture many of their sandals overseas (not all, just most of them).

I frankly think being in the sport specialty goods business is extremely difficult. I admire the companies who have endured. Even though I don't necessarily believe Patagonia quality has remained the same, the company remains in Yvon's family, they haven't sold out like Mountain Hardware, Arcteryx, Cloudveil, North Face, Marmot, so somehow they must be able to walk a fine line between profits, a livelihood for family and employees, and still expand. And it is much harder for companies like Sage, Simms, Scott, Winston. because their markets are limited and from what I understand, shrinking. They have to convince people that the it's time to mothball that "favorite" rod, reel, pair of waders. It's a harder sell than $100 on a new fleece something or other.

That said, I think it's tricky to be immune from the lure of cheaper manufacturing costs.
 
#141 ·
That said, I think it's tricky to be immune from the lure of cheaper manufacturing costs.
I'd venture that most companies don't voluntarily choose to manufacture offshore so much as their customer demand it through their preference for a lower price point. I think that as Americans, we all want to keep manufacturing jobs here in the US. But as consumers, nobody willingly pays a higher price for something. It's in our nature to try to 'drive a hard bargain' and get something for less than a stated retail price. That's why the notion of buying something 'on sale' is so appealing, or why we try so hard to negotiate a lower price when buying a car or a house.

The inherent contradiction though is that we can't have it both ways. Goods manufactured here are more expensive because American labor is higher paid than workers in say, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or China. Would you work for $4 a day? A lot of American crops go unpicked right now for the equivalent of $8 an hour.

I had this very conversation today with Chris Callanan, the director of sales and marketing for Outcast boats. Turns out that all but one of their pontoon boats is made offshore. Why? Customers don''t want to pay a premium price for a US-made boat when an offshore one costs half as much. Sadly, he told me that the US-made frames simply didn't have the quality or consistency as those made offshore even though they cost twice as much. But it wasn't like Outcast set out to offshore their products - that's what the market demanded, even though most of us are embarrassed to admit it.

K
 
#139 ·
I just heard that K-Mart is selling Winston rods and Simms waders for under $150.00. The closest store to me is like 275 miles away but what a deal so I'm heading out in my truck in about 10 mins. I'll let you know how I do, I can hardly wait to get there. :beer1:
 
#146 ·
So many things we buy have become
commodities which means that price
is primary because of options, with
that interweb thing. So instead of
shopping at the local Gig Harbor shop
I've found a better deal in Auckland.
Now I like the guys at the shop but
if I can save x amount of bucks well,
hell.

I love my Sage RPL and if they sold them
at Costco for a great price, I'd get two.

Dave
 
#152 ·
The notion that they are not selling rods less than MSRP is ridiculous. Check sierratradingpost.com They have both Sage and Simms marked way down when they have them. Also the concept that a seller cannot sell their product where ever and however they want is a bit too far for me.
 
#154 ·
Also the concept that a seller cannot sell their product where ever and however they want is a bit too far for me.
Uh, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but this isn't about Simms and Sage selling a product how they want. It's just the opposite actually. Costco did the ol' "end around" on those companies. Neither Sage or Simms wanted to sell at Costco. At least that's how I understand this ordeal.
 
#155 ·
Authorized fly shops can sell Sage and Simms at discounted prices too. The difference is when this happens, those products have been or will be discontinued and the authorized dealers can then sell them for less than MSRP. But the sale has to be pre-authorized by the manufacturer. Yeah, it isn't much different than price fixing but it is the rule that everybody lives by. This instance with Costco is different because they were selling goods, supposedly unauthorized mind you, below what every other authorized dealer could sell them.

One thing Simms and Sage could have done was to void the warranty of the products sold at Costco. If that were the case, how many of you would still think it to be such a great deal?
 
#156 ·
One thing Simms and Sage could have done was to void the warranty of the products sold at Costco. If that were the case, how many of you would still think it to be such a great deal?
How would they know were you got it. If they moved to having everyone provide a receipt, it would cause problems for everyone. Do you know where you receipt for a rod you got ten years ago is?
 
#158 ·
Jeff,

I do keep my receipts for large ticket items; guns, high end rods and reels, applicances, etc. in a lock box for safekeeping but I acknowledge that not everybody does.

I would think that the serial numbers could be attained from all the items that wound up and were sold at Costco. If so, that would be one easy way to determine point of sale. I don't recall that Simms requires a serial number to be put on the warranty card like rod makers do, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some number on their waders that could be used.
 
#164 ·
I believe Simms has a serial number on the micro chip imbedded in the crouch of their waders. The chip is part of a long term research project to measure gaseous emissions of fly fishermen. The data is then transmitted to either satellites orbiting over northern tier states and/or the next generation artificial fir and pine trees that are really relay antennas placed up and down most rivers and ridges overlooking lakes. To date the data confirms we're really just a bunch of old farts!
 
#170 ·
If Simms and Sage wanted their product in Costco at that price, then sure, good for us. But they didn't, and Costco used backhanded tactics to get the stuff in the store. Legal or not, it ain't cool with me. Totally missing the point with "mere commoner" comment. As a consumer, is everything about price?
 
#172 ·
So?

So. Some people prefer to make their purchases from vendors that go a step above what is required by law. The law does not require that a vendor act honorably in all regards, but I do. I'm really disappointed with Costco in this regard.

I suppose you might purchase hot gear from a crack head, if the price was right.
 
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