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Guiding Not Permitted?

6K views 59 replies 26 participants last post by  ozcast 
#1 ·
Just saw the new rules for the Skeena system include a number of restrictions for certain rivers: No guiding permitted.

Curious as to what you guys' opinions are on the matter. It's amazing to see the number of guides on the coast. A couple weekends ago I could tell that about half the boats going by where guided. ("mend, mend, inside water, mend"!)

I personally feel like there's a middle ground. A good guide is a huge asset for the conservation of a river. However, they really ought to limit the numbers of guides on a system to a reasonable number.
 
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#3 ·
I think what they are talking about and restricting waters because of the "guides" who aren't from b.c. who set up shop up there for a couple months and run their "clients" through on a consistant basic's...Claim public camping...no one else gets in...some real tools...some from down here, some from over seas...

There are many local b.c. guides who you can hire..no more weekend fishing for non b.c. residents on most rivers as well...Kick in the shorts for the local hotels etc.

Always a few jackasses who ruin it for everyone else..you see the same on the OP non wa. plate guiding services...
 
#4 ·
There are many local b.c. guides who you can hire..no more weekend fishing for non b.c. residents on most rivers as well...Kick in the shorts for the local hotels etc.
Looks like they have found an ingenious way to make sure tourists will always spend a good amount of money while there. No DIY fishing on the weekends means hiring a guide, or more likely spending more days in the area since you will have to use up vacation,PTO etc. during the week.
They claim it is for fish protection, but it smells an awful lot like xenophobic locals getting pissy when an outsider intrudes on "their" rivers. For some reason this sentiment seems eerily familiar.:rolleyes:
 
#7 ·
I don't see a problem with it, it is "their river" in their country and protecting the angling experience for the locals seems reasonable. Most of the people who are going to spend the dough to make a trip up there,are not going to let the day of the week stop them.
 
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#15 ·
As long as BC has better fishing for wild steelhead than WA state has, it will be difficult for me to criticize BC's choices of management decisions.

Sg
That's the downside of the one-size-fits-all guide licensing system in Washington. When fishing is hot on one fishery, every guide in the state can pounce on it if they want to. In BC, guides are licensed by specific waters they're allowed to guide on, so you don't get the same situation people are seeing on the OP this year.
Agreed fully. As far as the guides jumping rivers thing, that shit boils my blood. It's amazing how many guys are out guiding rivers that they know very little about.
 
#10 ·
my experiences in BC make me really wonder who has the better fishing.. maybe if you live there or happen to always pick the right week to go.. I have taken two trips to BC in the last 10 years both times I got blown out..

One time we floated the babine the second time we fished out of smithers.

On the babine I hooked 6 fish for the week the largest was 17.. didn't get to fish the last 3 days

the week out of smithers i went 2 fish for the week the one i landed was 15 had blown out conditions the first 3 days

that same time of year i can have a ball chasing coho and have 3-10 12 lb fish per day..

I might go to the Skeena again some day but it;s such a crap shoot for conditions that if i never go again i cannot say i would miss it.
 
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#16 ·
People fish on the weekends? Why on Earth would you do that? Fishing, that is what the work week was made for...weekends are for family!
The locals want to fish on the weekends without getting pounded..this "law" has been in discussion for some time...Mostly locals and residents were getting pissed off by overseas and out of province guides who were setting up shop and running clients through them all season...when you pull into a first come first served camping area and see tents set up that aren't in use but put there for "clients" use and you are from that province and have no where else to camp etc. it would piss you off some as well I'd think...

Unfortunetly...IMHO they threw the baby out with the bath water on this one and let the guides and lodges dictate what they wanted for monetary reasons...

Limiting days one could get a license on the same system etc AND having DFO out to enforce it would have done more to solve the problem..
 
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#17 ·
Something else I'd like to say on this Jesse and I'm sure I'll take a bunch of heat for it is...I also used to think of guides as "stewarts" of the rivers..but the more I'm out there the more I question this thinking...The days of guys on the OP sharing their knowledge and respect for the fish has taken a back seat to using methods "deemed" fly fishing that are not and instead badger the poor fish out of any resting water they might have had in the name of catching more fish for their clients...

Up north, guides taking over camping area's etc. Sending off weekly blogs and naming small systems with few wild fish in them all in the name of selling goods and services in their shops instead of protecting these fish irritates me no end...
Fudging numbers or blatantly lying to get people to sign up etc. etc. etc.

Last but not least the guide out of forks with pic's of all the dead wild steelhead he's got his clients into....WTF???

I know there are guides who are fly only and that means fly only...but that almost seems an oxymoron now...
 
#18 ·
What about the American guy who buy's a house in Spences Bridge and has an amazing number of "freinds" rotate thru during the short THOMPSON season.I think there should be a limited number of days that foreigners can fish on classified waters and it should be monitored by confiscating boats/trucks and gear if broken.The days should be consecutive days and you get one shot--say 5-7 days
This has become an industry on the Thompson as well as the \Bulkely and should stop
 
#19 ·
On the other side of things the guides are facilitating experiences with people who may come to care about the place enough to get involved in conservation. They are spending money that trickles down to the very people who are complaining about the crowds. It's hard to believe with all of the bureaucracy that plagues this state that it is so easy and cheap to become a guide, and that it's a free-for-all out there.
 
#20 ·
The locals want to fish on the weekends without getting pounded..this "law" has been in discussion for some time...Mostly locals and residents were getting pissed off by overseas and out of province guides who were setting up shop and running clients through them all season...when you pull into a first come first served camping area and see tents set up that aren't in use but put there for "clients" use and you are from that province and have no where else to camp etc. it would piss you off some as well I'd think...

Unfortunetly...IMHO they threw the baby out with the bath water on this one and let the guides and lodges dictate what they wanted for monetary reasons...

Limiting days one could get a license on the same system etc AND having DFO out to enforce it would have done more to solve the problem..
With my keen ability to be good at campfire conversation, travel with a nice bottle of spirits for OFF the water use when NOT operating a motorized vehicle or boat and some cool stories to tell that will support my inability to put any true pressure on a fishery any full campsite would welcome me to pull up a chair. I can sleep in my rig, it is pretty comfy and not upside down.
 
#23 ·
With my keen ability to be good at campfire conversation, travel with a nice bottle of spirits for OFF the water use when NOT operating a motorized vehicle or boat and some cool stories to tell that will support my inability to put any true pressure on a fishery any full campsite would welcome me to pull up a chair. I can sleep in my rig, it is pretty comfy and not upside down.
You must have been drunk as hell when you typed this Mumbles.... run on of the year award!
 
#21 ·
What about the American guy who buy's a house in Spences Bridge and has an amazing number of "freinds" rotate thru during the short THOMPSON season.I think there should be a limited number of days that foreigners can fish on classified waters and it should be monitored by confiscating boats/trucks and gear if broken.The days should be consecutive days and you get one shot--say 5-7 days
This has become an industry on the Thompson as well as the \Bulkely and should stop
Most of the guys fishing the Thompson are Canadians...and most of the people breaking regulations and killing fish are Canadians/locals. I don't see very many foreign plates there...BC and Alberta make up 90% of the vehicles there. There is a very fine line to toe before you bite the hand that feeds...NRA's already make up the bulk of contributions to the classified fee system...step over that line and a lot of money goes bye-bye.
 
#22 ·
What about the American guy who buy's a house in Spences Bridge and has an amazing number of "freinds" rotate thru during the short THOMPSON season.I think there should be a limited number of days that foreigners can fish on classified waters and it should be monitored by confiscating boats/trucks and gear if broken.The days should be consecutive days and you get one shot--say 5-7 days
This has become an industry on the Thompson as well as the \Bulkely and should stop
Americans , and other NRA`s , are the least of the problems the Thompson faces .
 
G
#24 ·
What about the American guy who buy's a house in Spences Bridge and has an amazing number of "freinds" rotate thru during the short THOMPSON season.I think there should be a limited number of days that foreigners can fish on classified waters and it should be monitored by confiscating boats/trucks and gear if broken.The days should be consecutive days and you get one shot--say 5-7 days
This has become an industry on the Thompson as well as the \Bulkely and should stop
That "guy" owns property on that river..he pays his taxes to the province of b.c and is a local..no matter where he's from...he's also one of the coolest people in the sport..he opens his house for "american" thanksgiving as it's on a different month then b.c. to all who care to stop in...and that's probably 99% canadian....
Since spences is almost completely bankrupt and almost devoid of anywhere to stay or eat it's a very welcome place if you have any class and/or he invites you...

Us foreigners spend $20 a day to have the privelge of fishing that fine river on the odd chance it opens....it is NOTHING like the smithers area ..nothing!!! there are no more foreigners coming from long distances to stay and fish there...as there is no where for them to do so and without knowing if it will open at all in the first place...
 
#25 ·
That "guy" owns property on that river..he pays his taxes to the province of b.c and is a local..no matter where he's from...he's also one of the coolest people in the sport..he opens his house for "american" thanksgiving as it's on a different month then b.c. to all who care to stop in...and that's probably 99% canadian....
Since spences is almost completely bankrupt and almost devoid of anywhere to stay or eat it's a very welcome place if you have any class and/or he invites you...

Us foreigners spend $20 a day to have the privelge of fishing that fine river on the odd chance it opens....it is NOTHING like the smithers area ..nothing!!! there are no more foreigners coming from long distances to stay and fish there...as there is no where for them to do so and without knowing if it will open at all in the first place...
 
#27 ·
"That cool guy" happens to have contributed significant amounts of money to the Steelhead Society of BC as well...what have you done for the Thompson YAMMY?

Foreign anglers are not an issue on the Thompson. I love how you act like you're trying to speak for the business owners in the area...guess what would happen if the idea you proposed a few posts back were to happen...yeah, mull that one over...your posts reek of hypocrisy and spite.
 
#32 ·
We've got no guide days on the kenai, we also have no motor days on the kenai. I wish they would implement some fees as well.

Clearly the only option is to figure out how to immigrate to Canada
Better have lots of dough, cause if you don't, they don't want ya
 
#33 ·
What about the American guy who buy's a house in Spences Bridge and has an amazing number of "freinds" rotate thru during the short THOMPSON season.I think there should be a limited number of days that foreigners can fish on classified waters and it should be monitored by confiscating boats/trucks and gear if broken.The days should be consecutive days and you get one shot--say 5-7 days
This has become an industry on the Thompson as well as the \Bulkely and should stop
Maybe, you should have actually taken the time to get know this American fellow who bought a house in Spences Bridge. Maybe spent some time at the fore mentioned house, and actually see for yourself what is going on there. If you had, you would found out first hand that nothing shady is going on. Most importantly, you would come to realize this fellow from the States is one of the most impressive individuals that one could have the good fortune of meeting. It is rare to meet an individual who is as accomplished at not only angling but everything he does. It is even rarer to come across an individual this accomplished who achieves even greater levels as far a being a great human being. Nobody is perfect, he maybe a bit too generous. His generosity maybe the reason that you have your suspicions. Nobody is actually like that generous. In this case, he is actually that generous, and yes he is that good of a person. If only all our neighbors including those to the South could be like this fellow. He has never asked anything in return for his generosity. Of those staying at the house, there are only a few requirements which are nonnegotiable. Respect the house, clean up after yourself. To the best of your ability, be respectful of the feelings, beliefs and opinions of the other guest of the house. Respect the possessions and property of others. Lastly, don't be a tool !!! You might have trouble with last one. Sadly, it is far too obvious that you did not take the time before you typed out that innuendo laced shite of a post. Really, you are talking unsubstantiated shite about this fellow from the States for being generous, for being good and decent person. If you had actually taken the time you would already know this. A suggestion, you should man up a bit. Confront people face to face, before you post shite like that. Other wise people might get the wrong idea that you are some kind of weasel ! Vipp.
 
#34 ·


Yammy,
What about that "American guy" who bought a house in Spence's Bridge? I happen to be one of those "friends" who rotates thru and let me tell you something, that's no illegal guiding operation, that place is the "spey angling club". It's a brotherhood of amazing friends & anglers ( both Canadian and Americans alike ) who have been fishing there together for years. All are welcome, and as the Vipp pointed out, you need only be courteous of others who happen to be staying at the house, respect everyone's opinions, clean up after yourself, and above all else, leave a cool fly on the wall as an offering. As for the owner, he is hands down the nicest man in the sport of fly fishing. I first met that "American guy" at the Log Cabin Pub. I had been living out of a wall tent with a bunch of buddies at the Grease Hole for a few weeks and like we did every night, we found ourselves warming our outsides AND insides at the Log Cabin Pub ( Owned by Spences Bridge locals who happen to be extremely close friends of ours and that "American guy" ). I happened to be sitting at the bar next to that "American guy" and he asked me if I had been fishing, we spent the rest of the night sharing stories of fish and mutual friends over MANY beers ( a few of the many THOUSANDS of American dollars we have spent in that LOCAL establishment ). When it was all said and done, he said, "if you ever need a place to stay, let me know, I just bought this place for me and my close fishing buddy's to hang out while were here fishing together, your welcome to stay anytime". Well, lots of people throw out invitations like that and I often take them with a bit of a grain of salt, but about a year or so later I was heading up to fish the T, it was December and I only had the weekend to fish so I wasn't too stoked about camping which I had historically done because I didn't have a lot of money to hotel it. I called that "American guy" up to see if by chance he was going to be up there and if he would mind if I threw my "rack" out on his floor. He said he wasn't, but that I should go see Laurie at the pub who had a spare key. He then said, get that key, have one made for yourself and don't ever ask me again if I can stay there and that I was always welcome. That "American guy" is now one of my best friends and favorite people in this world. He has done more for the sport of fishing and conservation of fisheries than most people I know and he is a damn good man. Money isn't a huge concern for him and he sure as hell doesn't need to run an illegal guide operation to keep himself fed. As for turning that fishery into a limited fishing opportunity for non-residents ( 5-7 days annually ). That river and the town of Spences Bridge need ALL the friends they can get right now, because if haven't you noticed, that run is in the proverbial toilet and it's not as a result of sport fishing or pressure on the river. It IS as a result of in river net fishery for the chums down in the Fraser and the water rights issues up the Nicola valley, both of which are way bigger issues than just you or I. So Yammy, before you comment on something which you have absolutely no knowledge, you ought to educate yourself on the subject. And, if you are going to call someone out openly on a public forum, you ought to use your real or full name so everyone knows who you are. Which is the problem with forums, it give assholes instant credibility with zero accountability, in other words, quit hiding behind a moniker and give us your real name if you are going to talk smack about others.

Chris Andersen
 
#36 ·
Some of the rivers in the Skeena and Nass system have rod-day quotas on guides. While watching the Methow explode with guides all up and down the river over the past few years, dodging a bazillion boats and rafts on the Hoh recently, as well as listening to some horror stories of over-competitive guides on the Grande Ronde, I really appreciate the lack of crowds up north. After fishing a semi-famous tributary of the Nass, I also appreciate the rod quota for the fact that it's rare to be able to fish where there is no trash and it all looks the as pristine as the first day I set foot in the river. Maybe rod quotas on some of our rivers rather than shutting them down entirely might not be such a bad idea.
 
G
#39 ·
maybe you get what you pay for in WA. Jim? Can fish b.c. year round for the most part for steelhead...can go to Oregon and pay $135 for a license..(about the same as i pay in b.c.for my license and steelhead tag) and fish year round for the most part...

It would be interesting to see if WA. took the same road and actually used the money for enhancement and restoration of our rivers...god forbid if we told out of state guides to find somewhere else to fish on weekends and let residents in....
 
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