A Sign of Good Fishing

#31
A sign of good fishing here - if you ask any landowner you see; if you tell them you're "zero impact"; if you fish alone or, most certainly, without someone who needs to whoop and holler with every fish hooked; and with a plastic bag to pick up trash on the beach.

Leland.
View attachment 20475
The sign means: The five figure property taxes that I pay do not provide for the collection and removal of public trash from my private property. The sign tells me nothing about the fishing.
 

Bradley Miller

Dances with fish
#32
Thats not the issue at hand. Do you or do you not retain the access rights to the tidelands below mean high tide? If not, then your taxes aren't the issue. Right?
 

Rich Schager

You should have been here yesterday...
#34
Thats not the issue at hand. Do you or do you not retain the access rights to the tidelands below mean high tide? If not, then your taxes aren't the issue. Right?
Most, if not all, counties in Washington have online search fuctions / property maps for each parcel of land - I've used these extensively. You can even see the amount of high property taxes being paid by the waterfront owner that you want to trespass on for free!
 

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#35
Owning waterfront is not the same as owning the tidelands, and that seems to be the focus of this thread. WA state did sell off a large amount of Puget Sound tidelands, but for the casual beach walker and angler, it's not even close to easy to discern which tidelands are private property and which are not. Many a waterfront owner mistakenly or purposely claims ownership of the tidelands that they do not have title to. I think that is the issue Bradley is trying to address. A similar thing happens sometimes on rivers. I ask the property owner to please call the Sheriff's office. Unfortunately the vast majority of County deputies are uninformed about riparian rights, but at least the lag time buys time enough for me to fish and move on.

Sg
 
#36
Riparian/littoral law in WA State is very complex. It is clear that some here do not respect the rights of waterfront property owners. The attitude that "asking for forgiveness is better than asking for permission", is wrong and may land your butt in jail one day. I don't believe that I am being unreasonable when I expect better of fellow fisherman.
 
#37
I believe in respecting private property. I also believe in respecting public access rights. The similar thing on rivers that Sg talks about particularly gets my goat when somebody asks me to pay a fee to "trespass" on property they don't own. Would you whip out the technology right then and there? This day and age, it is not difficult to access information.
 

Pat Lat

Mad Flyentist
#38
Riparian/littoral law in WA State is very complex. It is clear that some here do not respect the rights of waterfront property owners. The attitude that "asking for forgiveness is better than asking for permission", is wrong and may land your butt in jail one day. I don't believe that I am being unreasonable when I expect better of fellow fisherman.
it is also clear that some do not respect the rights of the public to have access to tidelands that the government didnt have the right to "sell" in the first. According to the public trust doctrine which has roots dating back to the romans, the intertidal space from the mean high water mark to extreme low tide are to be held, in trust by the government for the use of the public. This means that neither the government nor the person owning adjacent property should be able to claim exclusive rights to the property.
http://www.slc.ca.gov/policy_statements/public_trust/public_trust_doctrine.pdf

Being a fisherman I would expect you to understand why we may cross "boundaries", sometimes seeing the rezzies or cutts jumping 100ft past those signs is too tempting, but it sounds like you might be the kindof person to chase off someone who is just trying to have a good time fishing. In which case fine have the beach to your self.

Yes you should be respectful. yes you should pack out your garbage and leader trimmings or other trash you may come across, but not just because its someones property, because the beings that truely own and inhabit the property aren't able to do it themselves.

By the way its not trespassing if im in a kayak floating inches above your "property", whats is the real difference between that and wading. lets say I caught my fly on my back cast in a bush on your property, would you prefer I break it off as opposed to getting out of the kayak and untangling it? either I'm littering or I'm tresspassing. Personally i don't give two shits about trespassing, you dont own the beach no matter what some piece of paper says.
 
#39
Pat, although I agree with you in principle. I have to side with the landowners on this one. Whether it was right or wrong of the state to sell the tidelands is a mute point. They did and the owners pay high taxes on them.
I am willing to bet those who think it's okay to trespass don't own land and pay taxes on that land. If they did, they would be thinking twice about ignoring someone else's rights. How would you like it if you woke up one morning and found someone in your backyard?
The argument that "it wasn't right to sell the land to them so it's okay for me to ignore the sign" is just as lame as saying "It ain't illegal tell you get caught".
Personally I think the state should have to buy all of the tidelands back.
One more thing. That public trust link is from California. This is Washington. Different state, different laws.
 

Bradley Miller

Dances with fish
#41
Wow.

Ok, first of all.....the size of the 'tax bill' is only relevant to this discussion if the money in question is calculated with the actual ownership of the intertidal zone included. In other words, once again, do you or do you NOT have any sort of title to the intertidal zone? If not, then the size of your property taxes is irrelevant. And no, I do NOT want to pay it. But thats not the issue here. If your 'beach front' property does not include ownership of the land (see the above post regarding beaches that Washington sold off....) then it's not yours. Regardless of what you pay in taxes. Yes or no?

At any rate, (pardon the pun), I agree it's best to avoid all of this hassle and hard feelings if possible.
And Steve.......do you own waterfront? Can I fish there? Please? :)

And yet another comment....there is an ongoing discussion in the 'watercraft' forum about kayaks.
It is my understanding that as long as you're floating, you're not trespassing. A small kayak can float in a couple of inches of water sooooooooo this seems to be a good solution to some potential trespassing issues. Leave no trace!
 

dryflylarry

"Chasing Riseforms"
#42
Pat, although I agree with you in principle. I have to side with the landowners on this one. Whether it was right or wrong of the state to sell the tidelands is a mute point. They did and the owners pay high taxes on them.
I am willing to bet those who think it's okay to trespass don't own land and pay taxes on that land. If they did, they would be thinking twice about ignoring someone else's rights. How would you like it if you woke up one morning and found someone in your backyard?
The argument that "it wasn't right to sell the land to them so it's okay for me to ignore the sign" is just as lame as saying "It ain't illegal tell you get caught".
Personally I think the state should have to buy all of the tidelands back.
One more thing. That public trust link is from California. This is Washington. Different state, different laws.

Here's Washington States Doctrine:
https://fortress.wa.gov/ecy/publications/publications/93054.pdf
 
#44
imo, it is one thing to fish private beaches as an individual but it is different to make a post promoting it. we really shouldn't be promoting trespassing and disrespect of private property.

i would suggest asking for permission before fishing private beaches. it is a matter of respect, regardless of how one feels about private ownership of beaches below high tide.

of course, if someone is posting public beaches... screw em' and walk past those signs.
Yep.

Leland - It does seem more than a little arrogant to initiate a thread suggesting that flyfishers ignore legal, posted signage. I agree with those who feel that all tidelands should be public, and what you do personally is your call, but as a representative of Orvis, I think you should err on the side of what is legal. Do you recommend other illegal fishing behavior simply because you don't agree with the law?
 

Jim Wallace

Smells like low tide.
#45
I don't like to trespass on posted property. That doesn't mean that I always won't do it. There are situations where I might stretch the boundaries a bit, but since I leave only tracks in the sand that are gone after the next tide, I wouldn't feel that I'd be doing any harm. I wouldn't be there long, and there would have to be some compelling reason (the presence of fish) for taking a chance on getting "evicted." That said, I know of enough public places where I can fish from the beach, or launch my yak, so that my minor trespassing has been a very rare occurrence.

I don't even think its legal to drop anchor on someones tidelands. Even that may be "trespassing." Somebody, anybody, please correct me if I'm wrong. I do know that oyster growers don't like anchors gouging up their oyster beds.

Otherwise, I may eventually end up having to get one of those spendy Minnkota electrics with a GPS "smart" controller that will hold the boat in position, without having to anchor.
Anyway, this might be a possible solution for fishing over private tidelands, so that one does not have to worry so much about their anchor "trespassing" on someone's private tidelands in current or wind.