NFR: No Solution, just dead kids...

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Go Fish

Language, its a virus
#61
No Solution , just dead kids....

Good to see that some of the people here
are offering compelling advice and comment
(ie GAT and Dick O) with a possibility
of changing or helping this issue versus
dropping bombs of bs with no relevence
to this horror.

Dave
 
#62
It's unthinkable, and impossible to wrap your mind around this.

What I'll say is, put aside your views for a minute. Put aside your beliefs.

Think about what you can do to help this never happen again. And I'm not just talking about carrying a piece. Sure, maybe there's a place for that, but in the end that is simply a reaction, and not an action.

I'm talking about taking the best care possible of your own kids, your brothers and sisters, nephews, nieces, neighbor kids--including getting them mental health help if they need it.
I'm talking about volunteering at your local school, community organization, church--anywhere--and somehow being a positive presence in a kid's life--especially those kids who need it most. There are so many of them out there who simply need to see that someone cares. That someone is interested in them.
I think it goes without saying that this shooter was beyond fucked up. The sad thing is, there was probably a time when he wasn't, when he was just a kid trying to get through life. I don't know.
What I do know is, I see and work with kids every day who barely have a chance. And for a lot of them, it is a simple matter of connecting them with an adult who truly wants to see them succeed.

I'd encourage you to do what you can toward that end, in any way, shape, or form. You never know who you might be helping.

Jason
 

Roper

Idiot Savant
#63
I say:

-If you have ever been found guilty of a felony, no gun permit.
-If you have ever been found guilty of assualt and battery, no gun permit.
-If you have ever been found guilty of beating your wife, no gun permit.
-If you have ever been found to have certain mental/behavioral problems, no gun permit.
I'm sure there could be more added to this list.
I see you never filled out a Federal Firearms form, those and more are already there. No permit is required to steal someone else' gun though.

These horrific crimes are a spiritual problem with a spiritual answer. Look around at our world today. Is it any wonder these things happen? Look at what is important to people today, particularly in the US. Kids attend MMA fights to see guys beat each other silly. Violent video games released just in time for the kids at Christmas. Fer chrissakes folks get killed in a stampede on Black Friday over a flat screen TV. The middle East is busy destroying itself and we're helping. The President brags about killing Bin Laden. Our civilization is in ruin, we never learn from history, we just keep repeating it. Is it really any surprise?
 

Bradley Miller

Dances with fish
#64
It's unthinkable, and impossible to wrap your mind around this.

What I'll say is, put aside your views for a minute. Put aside your beliefs.

Think about what you can do to help this never happen again. And I'm not just talking about carrying a piece. Sure, maybe there's a place for that, but in the end that is simply a reaction, and not an action.

I'm talking about taking the best care possible of your own kids, your brothers and sisters, nephews, nieces, neighbor kids--including getting them mental health help if they need it.
I'm talking about volunteering at your local school, community organization, church--anywhere--and somehow being a positive presence in a kid's life--especially those kids who need it most. There are so many of them out there who simply need to see that someone cares. That someone is interested in them.
I think it goes without saying that this shooter was beyond fucked up. The sad thing is, there was probably a time when he wasn't, when he was just a kid trying to get through life. I don't know.
What I do know is, I see and work with kids every day who barely have a chance. And for a lot of them, it is a simple matter of connecting them with an adult who truly wants to see them succeed.

I'd encourage you to do what you can toward that end, in any way, shape, or form. You never know who you might be helping.

Jason

Dude, that is a truly helpful observation. I have a houseful of teenage foster boys who have all (ALL) manner of screwed up backgrounds, disabilities, and behavior problems.
We see patterns. (No fly fishing pun intended....) We have boys who never really ever had any chance at a real shot at a successful, productive life at all (as far as it would appear)....but they are here, and they are among us. And yes, I believe many of them need a connection, as you describe. Good call. Foster care needs more mentors. Just sayin'.
 
#67
Max Lucado
Posted this today after the news....
Kelly
A Christmas Prayer

by Max Lucado • December 14

Dear Jesus,

It’s a good thing you were born at night. This world sure seems dark. I have a good eye for silver linings. But they seem dimmer lately.

These killings, Lord. These children, Lord. Innocence violated. Raw evil demonstrated.

The whole world seems on edge. Trigger-happy. Ticked off. We hear threats of chemical weapons and nuclear bombs. Are we one button-push away from annihilation?

Your world seems a bit darker this Christmas. But you were born in the dark, right? You came at night. The shepherds were nightshift workers. The Wise Men followed a star. Your first cries were heard in the shadows. To see your face, Mary and Joseph needed a candle flame. It was dark. Dark with Herod’s jealousy. Dark with Roman oppression. Dark with poverty. Dark with violence.

Herod went on a rampage, killing babies. Joseph took you and your mom into Egypt. You were an immigrant before you were a Nazarene.

Oh, Lord Jesus, you entered the dark world of your day. Won’t you enter ours? We are weary of bloodshed. We, like the wise men, are looking for a star. We, like the shepherds, are kneeling at a manger.

This Christmas, we ask you, heal us, help us, be born anew in us.

Hopefully,

Your Children
 
#69
What was a guy who was not a student, staff, or a parent doing inside an elementary school? Seems like a pretty simple problem to solve. I have to swipe a badge and walk past security every day. Not that big of a deal.
that's definitely one solution. But think about the financial difficulties most school's have now. I think that, sadly, there may not be enough money in most school districts for that to be a reality. I don't know if it is actually that easy. A security system and personnel would be expensive as hell, taking away from already cash-strapped schools that can't afford enough teachers to take care of the kids they've got. I agree though, it would be a really great thing if we could have people in every school who are put there to protect the kids. Even better would be to move toward a society where that isn't needed.
 
#70
that's definitely one solution. But think about the financial difficulties most school's have now. I think that, sadly, there may not be enough money in most school districts for that to be a reality. I don't know if it is actually that easy. A security system and personnel would be expensive as hell, taking away from already cash-strapped schools that can't afford enough teachers to take care of the kids they've got. I agree though, it would be a really great thing if we could have people in every school who are put there to protect the kids. Even better would be to move toward a society where that isn't needed.
I've installed the "soft" systems a couple times. If you go RFID and simple infrared cams It's not too bad cost wise, especially at the discounts given to the education sector. The Hard system is where it can get expensive. If it wasn't planned for when the building was designed, creating a single point of entry can get expensive really fast. All of those "campus" style elementary schools they started building here in the 90's would be $$ to secure.
 

SteveA

Gnu to the board
#71
School officials certainly need to be aware of who is in or around the school premises but I can't see how swiping a badge is going to stop one of these nuts. He'll just break the glass or come in behind the next person.

At the risk of starting a flame war, this is an idea I've been toying with the last couple years. Seems like a constant in many of these mass shooting is that the shooters are young males. Perhaps there should be laws put into place that restrict possession of semi-automatic weapons by anyone under age 30. No handguns at all until 25 and restricted to revolvers.

Before anyone has the chance to tell me that these changes would not have stopped today's shooter, I will say, you are correct. The weapons he got his hands on were not secured and that is another problem. But clearly the legal possession of semi-automatic guns by young adults continues to be costly to our society.

I don't see this as any kind of all-encompassing solution but it is something that could possibly reduce these terrible mass shootings.
 
#72
What was a guy who was not a student, staff, or a parent doing inside an elementary school? Seems like a pretty simple problem to solve. I have to swipe a badge and walk past security every day. Not that big of a deal.
Apparently they did have a controlled entry system, but the guy's mother was a teacher at the school and he was known to them. Metal detectors are not commonly used at elementary schools.
 
#73
Apparently they did have a controlled entry system, but the guy's mother was a teacher at the school and he was known to them. Metal detectors are not commonly used at elementary schools.
He was also dressed like a ninja sporting a bullet proof vest and armed to the teeth. I don't care if his mother was theresa and it was bring a psycotic paramilitary ninja to work day, he shouldn't have been allowed in that school unless he's staff, student or a parent. Obviously, there was a flaw in their security plan, probably human error.

Steve, there are ways to prevent that. I won't speak to it being I'm not a professional security consultant. I've only worked with a couple on securing some sites with previous employers. The design of those buildings were easy to secure with rfid, infrared camers, and electronic locks that could be controlled from a central location. I'm sure every site is different.
 

Old Man

Just an Old Man
#74
I have gotten to quit watching the news on TV because of all the violence. It seems everyday there is somebody killing somebody or a group of people.

And talking about knives. When I was in Washington and went to the courthouse I had to check my fingernail clippers before I went in. Here in Montana there is no such law. I went to court to sit on jury. I carry a Swiss army knife. in my pocket. Nobody checked me for any weapons.

You people on the coast are all wound to damn tight. Both East and West coasts. It may be that I live in the western part of America that we don't all think like that.

I'll say no more on this shit.
 
#75
He was also dressed like a ninja sporting a bullet proof vest and armed to the teeth. I don't care if his mother was theresa and it was bring a psycotic paramilitary ninja to work day, he shouldn't have been allowed in that school unless he's staff, student or a parent. Obviously, there was a flaw in their security plan, probably human error.
The idea that no one should be allowed into a school other than staff, students or parents is, and no disrespect here, ludicrous.

Phone repair people, computer sales persons, cell phone purveyors, copy machine supplies and repair, book sales... the list goes on and on. Human error pervades every human endeavor. Don't make the school the perpetrator here. They knew the guy, he probably offered a plausible explanation for wanting to see the principal, his weapons were hidden and his vest was probably under his sweatshirt.

If there is any flaw in their plan it's that people don't have to present themselves to someone who can look at them other than via television cameras. You may have noticed that public schools are under serious financial stresses lately.

Perhaps someone should look at the meds the shooter was taking and determine if they helped turn him into a psychotic killer. There are some interesting side effects from some of the new ones out there now.

Craig
 
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