Lenore Poachers Get Theirs

Salmo_g

Well-Known Member
#92
DBK,

It's your prerogative to regard posters lack of sympathy and empathy however you wish, but assuming it's positive outcomes we're after - you do seek a positive outcome, don't you? - what is your prescription that leads to the outcome where these four men never poach the public commons again? We know lethal force prevents (and precludes) recidivism, but what compassionate, sympathetic, and empathetic alternative do you have that produces an equivalent outcome?

Sg
 

dbk

Active Member
#93
I don't find the treatment as irony. Reactionary perhaps but not ironic. I am still trying to find something about these guys that deserves my empathy. I have no life experiences that I can draw upon to feel empaty towards them. I seem to be unable to reach into the emotions needed to be a poacher. Without this basic understanding of what drove these individuals to poach at this level I cannot feel any empathy towards them. Having said that I think public flogging might be a compasionate punishment. Certainly more compassion then they showed the resource and the law.
That is what makes empathy such a gift - it cannot be deserved and is not predicated upon what I have done or failed to do- it is simply is offered out concern for another's good and well being, especially when their actions seem to give us a justification for saying they (their life) does not matter anymore because of what they did... True empathy will hold others accountable without "writing them off" as garbage to simply be thrown away, but a person who is capable of changing, being redeemed in a sense to live in accord with the common good that pertains to all of us as human beings living together in this world, whether we like it or not.

In this regard, its only when we experience that empathy from another that we "see" it and realize our capacity for offering it to others. When I have hurt others deeply through actions that showed such a disregard for them in different ways, while not criminal, it was through the gift of empathy showed towards me by the people I hurt deeply which "freed" me to see a good in them I could not see before... it opened my eyes to the well-being of someone else as a priority, which in turn helped me to see that the good of who I am is fulfilled only in responding to the good of others. That is why love, compassion, empathy is difficult because it requires us to sacrifice of ourselves for the good of another and is something we "learn" or receive only when that gift is first freely offered to us by another... especially when we do not "deserve" it.. Because in truth, we never will. All of us through our actions have hurt others and been hurt by the actions of others and the only way out of that cycle of abuse, hatred, anger, self-centeredness, etc. is love, mercy, compassion and empathy. And if that is not first shown towards us by another, there is no way for us to see our capacity for it within ourselves. That is why it is such a beautiful gift that we are so often unable to see - it cannot come from ourselves or be discovered in an understanding of other people's motives for doing what they do. And if we are looking there for it, we will never find it. The cost of true love where empathy is discovered comes at a very high price, yet is available to all who are willing to accept it. That is a choice nobody can make for us... if we don't, then our only choice then is to "push back" and keep fighting the abusive actions of others by "giving it back" to those who in our eyes are "deserving" to be treated as human garbage, scum. Most especially ourselves, because if we cannot see the good of another person (no matter what they have done), then we will never see the good in ourselves and what we truly are capable of as human beings - which is to love not simply our friends, but our enemies as well.....
 

dflett68

Active Member
#94
That is what makes empathy such a gift - it cannot be deserved and is not predicated upon what I have done or failed to do- it is simply is offered out concern for another's good and well being, especially when their actions seem to give us a justification for saying they (their life) does not matter anymore because of what they did... True empathy will hold others accountable without "writing them off" as garbage to simply be thrown away, but a person who is capable of changing, being redeemed in a sense to live in accord with the common good that pertains to all of us as human beings living together in this world, whether we like it or not.

In this regard, its only when we experience that empathy from another that we "see" it and realize our capacity for offering it to others. When I have hurt others deeply through actions that showed such a disregard for them in different ways, while not criminal, it was through the gift of empathy showed towards me by the people I hurt deeply which "freed" me to see a good in them I could not see before... it opened my eyes to the well-being of someone else as a priority, which in turn helped me to see that the good of who I am is fulfilled only in responding to the good of others. That is why love, compassion, empathy is difficult because it requires us to sacrifice of ourselves for the good of another and is something we "learn" or receive only when that gift is first freely offered to us by another... especially when we do not "deserve" it.. Because in truth, we never will. All of us through our actions have hurt others and been hurt by the actions of others and the only way out of that cycle of abuse, hatred, anger, self-centeredness, etc. is love, mercy, compassion and empathy. And if that is not first shown towards us by another, there is no way for us to see our capacity for it within ourselves. That is why it is such a beautiful gift that we are so often unable to see - it cannot come from ourselves or be discovered in an understanding of other people's motives for doing what they do. And if we are looking there for it, we will never find it. The cost of true love where empathy is discovered comes at a very high price, yet is available to all who are willing to accept it. That is a choice nobody can make for us... if we don't, then our only choice then is to "push back" and keep fighting the abusive actions of others by "giving it back" to those who in our eyes are "deserving" to be treated as human garbage, scum. Most especially ourselves, because if we cannot see the good of another person (no matter what they have done), then we will never see the good in ourselves and what we truly are capable of as human beings - which is to love not simply our friends, but our enemies as well.....
preachy? this is proselytizing. just cue the organ and turn down the lights. please get this weirdness over with so we can exit to the lobby talk about something real!
 
#95
Put 'em under the Sword......then there will be room for forgiveness....you can take your empathy, and please shove it as far up a Criminals @ss as is possible.

Fact of the matter is this, in the end the outcome will be a small fine, half or all of these guys will not even show up for court anyways. The only reason they even got caught is because they allready got 200-400 fish prior, making people suspicious, thats this year alone. Russians are like Locusts, call it culture, call it what ever the Fk you want, they take and destroy all public resources they encounter until its gone, then move on to the next one. While poachers come in many shades and colors, its Russians, that as a group, conspire and organize to subvert and exploit every resource they encounter for thier own gain until its gone.
It is what it is.
 

_WW_

Geriatric Skagit Swinger
#96
That is what makes empathy such a gift - it cannot be deserved and is not predicated upon what I have done or failed to do- it is simply is offered out concern for another's good and well being, especially when their actions seem to give us a justification for saying they (their life) does not matter anymore because of what they did... True empathy will hold others accountable without "writing them off" as garbage to simply be thrown away, but a person who is capable of changing, being redeemed in a sense to live in accord with the common good that pertains to all of us as human beings living together in this world, whether we like it or not.

In this regard, its only when we experience that empathy from another that we "see" it and realize our capacity for offering it to others. When I have hurt others deeply through actions that showed such a disregard for them in different ways, while not criminal, it was through the gift of empathy showed towards me by the people I hurt deeply which "freed" me to see a good in them I could not see before... it opened my eyes to the well-being of someone else as a priority, which in turn helped me to see that the good of who I am is fulfilled only in responding to the good of others. That is why love, compassion, empathy is difficult because it requires us to sacrifice of ourselves for the good of another and is something we "learn" or receive only when that gift is first freely offered to us by another... especially when we do not "deserve" it.. Because in truth, we never will. All of us through our actions have hurt others and been hurt by the actions of others and the only way out of that cycle of abuse, hatred, anger, self-centeredness, etc. is love, mercy, compassion and empathy. And if that is not first shown towards us by another, there is no way for us to see our capacity for it within ourselves. That is why it is such a beautiful gift that we are so often unable to see - it cannot come from ourselves or be discovered in an understanding of other people's motives for doing what they do. And if we are looking there for it, we will never find it. The cost of true love where empathy is discovered comes at a very high price, yet is available to all who are willing to accept it. That is a choice nobody can make for us... if we don't, then our only choice then is to "push back" and keep fighting the abusive actions of others by "giving it back" to those who in our eyes are "deserving" to be treated as human garbage, scum. Most especially ourselves, because if we cannot see the good of another person (no matter what they have done), then we will never see the good in ourselves and what we truly are capable of as human beings - which is to love not simply our friends, but our enemies as well.....
Wow...!

This is your brain on drugs.
 

KerryS

Ignored Member
#97
That is what makes empathy such a gift - it cannot be deserved and is not predicated upon what I have done or failed to do- it is simply is offered out concern for another's good and well being, especially when their actions seem to give us a justification for saying they (their life) does not matter anymore because of what they did... True empathy will hold others accountable without "writing them off" as garbage to simply be thrown away, but a person who is capable of changing, being redeemed in a sense to live in accord with the common good that pertains to all of us as human beings living together in this world, whether we like it or not.

In this regard, its only when we experience that empathy from another that we "see" it and realize our capacity for offering it to others. When I have hurt others deeply through actions that showed such a disregard for them in different ways, while not criminal, it was through the gift of empathy showed towards me by the people I hurt deeply which "freed" me to see a good in them I could not see before... it opened my eyes to the well-being of someone else as a priority, which in turn helped me to see that the good of who I am is fulfilled only in responding to the good of others. That is why love, compassion, empathy is difficult because it requires us to sacrifice of ourselves for the good of another and is something we "learn" or receive only when that gift is first freely offered to us by another... especially when we do not "deserve" it.. Because in truth, we never will. All of us through our actions have hurt others and been hurt by the actions of others and the only way out of that cycle of abuse, hatred, anger, self-centeredness, etc. is love, mercy, compassion and empathy. And if that is not first shown towards us by another, there is no way for us to see our capacity for it within ourselves. That is why it is such a beautiful gift that we are so often unable to see - it cannot come from ourselves or be discovered in an understanding of other people's motives for doing what they do. And if we are looking there for it, we will never find it. The cost of true love where empathy is discovered comes at a very high price, yet is available to all who are willing to accept it. That is a choice nobody can make for us... if we don't, then our only choice then is to "push back" and keep fighting the abusive actions of others by "giving it back" to those who in our eyes are "deserving" to be treated as human garbage, scum. Most especially ourselves, because if we cannot see the good of another person (no matter what they have done), then we will never see the good in ourselves and what we truly are capable of as human beings - which is to love not simply our friends, but our enemies as well.....

Do you expect me to read through this quantity of verbal diarrhea and come away with something resembling empathy? Well, my empathy level for criminals or even other people hasn’t gone up because of your barely comprehendible disgorgement of crapola. Are you kidding? Do you really believe this stuff? You come across as someone who has led a very cosseted life.



I don’t know your life experiences but I am fairly confident they do not parallel mine. I am not far enough away from the street in mind, time or distance to feel anything like you suggest. There is another side to our society that many do not see and could not comprehend. It is raw, brutal, unemotional, unforgiving and, can be absolutely deadly. Human beings wreck incomprehensible havoc on other human beings relentlessly without as much as a thought. The level of which would give most nightmares for weeks if not forever. Spend some time living the streets of your own society, come back to me afterwards and ask for my empathy. Alex mentioned SE Asia. Take a hard look at what he what he was referring to. There is a side of humanity that cares little for empathy or any other “normal” human emotion. You are nothing more that another bag of excrement to them; something to be wiped off the bottom of their boot with an expression of disgust. I have no love for my enemies………..period. I wish them only ruin as they do me.
 

Breck

The Whisky Guy
#98
Well it seems we're on that track. Just a few billion more people and there won't be many creatures left. I digress: the phrasing of "sacrificing a human life" seems to suggest something done by someone else. Willfully ending the lives of these criminals would absolutely be inappropriate. However, should one of them choose a series of actions which leads to their own death--i.e., swimming out into cold water in the middle of the night--rather than face the law, that is hardly "sacrificing" in the sense of someone else causing it. That is simply a person making a series of bad decisions. We can debate the appropriateness of wishing for one outcome or another, but there needs to be a clear distinction between "If they died as a result of their actions, ________________" and "They should die/be dead for what they did." Those are very different sentiments with very different ramifications.
SPOT ON!
 

Alex MacDonald

that's His Lordship, to you.....
#99
Oh, he wants us to love our enemies; I didn't love `em; I shot the fuckers. If they moved, I shot `em again. The only thing I felt upon squeezing the trigger of my M-40A1, was recoil, not empathy. Bottom line, DBK, is that you clearly haven't encountered real evil anywhere in your life; if you had, you'd either have learned enough to not spout this gibberish, or you'd be dead.

What gives me nightmares even today, is the indescribable horror these gomers visited upon innocent human beings. I volunteered to go hunt these individuals, who to everyone who encountered them, were decidedly NOT human. There was NO good in them whatsoever. May you never encounter things like that. I have. I still get up each morning and go take a piss; they don't. So upon further reflection, I'm not really mean, or mean-spirited, or any of the other things "progressive thinkers" like to label me; I have as much empathy for them as I would for a clay pigeon that just left the launcher.
 

Irafly

Indi "Ira" Jones
Hell yeah, lets kill the scum bag poachers! Damm I wish those wardens had a license to kill then we wouldn't even be having this debate, they killed the fish the slimy good for nothings deserve the bullet no doubt. Dang it if people like Alex though didn't go out and fight for our freedom and our constitution and that stupid due process crap. But what the hell they are obviously a bunch of illegal immigrants with names like Krikistateted or whatever the hell they were because those sure aren't American names. Don't you all wish we as good Americans had that special license kill, to be judge and jury on the spot, we don't need to find out anymore information, they were bad, string them up, stop wasting time and energy and money, we see the bad and we put an immediate end to it. Start packing men and if you are a sleeze ball poacher or rule breaker I'm going to be gunning for you because you are not worth my empathy/sympathy/whateverathy. I'm sure that most of you agree that if you had caught these guys and been given the right to do so you would have pulled the trigger without hesitation.

Heck let's not stop at these guys, I mean hell these guys only killed fish, lets go after the real bad dudes and duddets lets go after the people who talk on their cell phones and text while driving those people cause over 2,500 human deaths a year and over another 330,000 injuries. Talk about terrorists! Cops should just pull those people over shoot them on sight, impound their cars and stuff and sell it so the state can have more money.

Next on my list is those speeders, you know who you are. Over 10,000 deaths a year are contributed to speeding. Hell over 32% of all traffic deaths can be attributed to speeding at a cost of over $40 billion a year. Those are the real criminals.

And in both these cases, these are people willfully breaking the law and knowingly putting other peoples lives in danger. Not fishes lives, but human lives. These are scumbags to the nth degree and do not deserve right to due process.

Hell in comparison to traffic a-holes, what those poachers did seems meaningless, but don't get me wrong they are still scumbags that deserve to DIE, and I have no doubts about my ability to judge with little or limited information, they are what they are and they will never change.

As has already been mentioned, there are already to many humans on planet Earth and it is about time we started doing something to cull the population. Make a mistake and you pay the cheapest way we know how, bullet in the head and you share a mass grave with a bunch of other folks, I like it, I like it a lot as long as I get to be the judge of what is right and wrong.

Oh and Alex, I think dbk has met evil like you mentioned, in fact I think he's faced it right here on this forum.

So worth breaking my new years resolution not to get sucked into this garbage!
 

zen leecher aka bill w

born to work, forced to fish
Hell yeah, lets kill the scum bag poachers! Damm I wish those wardens had a license to kill then we wouldn't even be having this debate, they killed the fish the slimy good for nothings deserve the bullet no doubt. Dang it if people like Alex though didn't go out and fight for our freedom and our constitution and that stupid due process crap. But what the hell they are obviously a bunch of illegal immigrants with names like Krikistateted or whatever the hell they were because those sure aren't American names. Don't you all wish we as good Americans had that special license kill, to be judge and jury on the spot, we don't need to find out anymore information, they were bad, string them up, stop wasting time and energy and money, we see the bad and we put an immediate end to it. Start packing men and if you are a sleeze ball poacher or rule breaker I'm going to be gunning for you because you are not worth my empathy/sympathy/whateverathy. I'm sure that most of you agree that if you had caught these guys and been given the right to do so you would have pulled the trigger without hesitation.

Heck let's not stop at these guys, I mean hell these guys only killed fish, lets go after the real bad dudes and duddets lets go after the people who talk on their cell phones and text while driving those people cause over 2,500 human deaths a year and over another 330,000 injuries. Talk about terrorists! Cops should just pull those people over shoot them on sight, impound their cars and stuff and sell it so the state can have more money.

Next on my list is those speeders, you know who you are. Over 10,000 deaths a year are contributed to speeding. Hell over 32% of all traffic deaths can be attributed to speeding at a cost of over $40 billion a year. Those are the real criminals.

And in both these cases, these are people willfully breaking the law and knowingly putting other peoples lives in danger. Not fishes lives, but human lives. These are scumbags to the nth degree and do not deserve right to due process.

Hell in comparison to traffic a-holes, what those poachers did seems meaningless, but don't get me wrong they are still scumbags that deserve to DIE, and I have no doubts about my ability to judge with little or limited information, they are what they are and they will never change.

As has already been mentioned, there are already to many humans on planet Earth and it is about time we started doing something to cull the population. Make a mistake and you pay the cheapest way we know how, bullet in the head and you share a mass grave with a bunch of other folks, I like it, I like it a lot as long as I get to be the judge of what is right and wrong.

Oh and Alex, I think dbk has met evil like you mentioned, in fact I think he's faced it right here on this forum.

So worth breaking my new years resolution not to get sucked into this garbage!

Ira, there is hope for you after all. You are starting to get cranky like me and OMJ. Next thing you know your screenname will change to OMI and when you fish you will only use three flies.
 

jersey

livin' the dream
Reason is the difference between man and animals. Those SOBs chose not to use their power of reason. Screw-em. They knew what they were doing and they deserve worse than what they got. Many times a week reading or hearing about low-life scum, I sometimes wish we had laws and cops like in Singapore.

dbk, history has shown us time and again what empathy and compassion gets you; dead or enslaved. check it out, lots of material on the subject...while busy researching, please find me an animal species on the planet which is "progressive" in nature.

Considering others, including myself, choose to place ourselves in Mother Nature's den regularly, this is the arena where empathy is needed. But, she can be a real bitch and does not give shit about you in the least.
 

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