Cedar Today...Glad To Home In One Piece

David Dalan

69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E
#31
Worrying about being eaten by a black bear or a cougar in MOST angling locations is about as relevant as worrying about being killed by lighting or eaten by a shark.

Dogs are another f'ing story. Honestly mace/spray and a small (3-4" will do) knife is more than enough, but I certainly don't object to anyone carrying guns. But I agree, that in a piss you pants moment with a charging/snarling dog moment...you're likely to suffer marksmanship issues. Mace/Pepper is a cone of incredible discomfort, and easy to hit a moving target.

Should a dog latch on, a small knife should be sufficient to end the conflict, though not without some injury. But if you are actually attacked by a predatory mammal, injury should be expected.

If you completely lose your cool, you could have an RPG. It won't matter.
 
#32
The literature I've found suggests that bear spray is better than firearms when handling bears. The best study available appears to be Smith et al. 2008.

Smith, T. S., S. Herrero, T. D. DeBruyn, and J. M. Wilder. 2008. Efficacy of bear deterrent spray in Alaska. Journal of Wildlife Management 72:640–645.

A follow-up looked at incidents when only firearms were used.

Smith, T.S., Herrero, T. D., Layton, C.S. Larsen, R.T., Johnson, K.R. Efficacy of Firearms for Bear Deterrence in Alaska. Journal of Wildlife Management 76:1021-1027.

Both of these are easily available online. There appears to be no similar study on use of bearspray on mountain lions, probably because attacks are more rare and because cougars tend to stalk and attack from a nearby position. As mentioned above, if you see it, you are lucky and probably not being stalked.

In any case, I go with bear spray. Which I have fortunately never needed to use.

Yeah I saw that research too--very interesting. It's spray for sure. A combat knife would be nice too, although if it came to that I'm toast anyway. Why wound it LOL?
 
#34
Worrying about being eaten by a black bear or a cougar in MOST angling locations is about as relevant as worrying about being killed by lighting or eaten by a shark.

Dogs are another f'ing story. Honestly mace/spray and a small (3-4" will do) knife is more than enough, but I certainly don't object to anyone carrying guns. But I agree, that in a piss you pants moment with a charging/snarling dog moment...you're likely to suffer marksmanship issues. Mace/Pepper is a cone of incredible discomfort, and easy to hit a moving target.

Should a dog latch on, a small knife should be sufficient to end the conflict, though not without some injury. But if you are actually attacked by a predatory mammal, injury should be expected.

If you completely lose your cool, you could have an RPG. It won't matter.
Good point. I found out first hand how important nerves are. 17yrs of competition served me well.
 

SteveA

Gnu to the board
#36
If I were a city boy, and my only exposure to the outdoors were WFF, I'd be certain that leaving the city is a death defying act. Sheesh. What a bunch of paranoia.
 

holtad

Active Member
#38
Thanks for the heads-up! I've been fishing in the area a bit and have only encountered the occasional dog, and none that seemed more bite than bark but I'm going to get some mace/pepper spray to carry just in case.

Was out last night and was able to land 5-6 fish, most were just the 6-7 inch doinkers but did find one rainbow that was around 14 inches. Perfect stuff for my new (to me) 3 wt rod.
 

scottr

Active Member
#39
Everything started good. Caught 5 of the usual 10" bows with my usual zero luck down deep. 3 deer came right up to the bank and watched me fish for 20min or so before I waived goodbye. It was probably deer being deer, but they seemed really spooky. Kept that in mind for some reason...

All downhill from there. Snags galore, tree tangles, etc. Was changing patterns when before I know it a large dog is charging me, growling, full tilt. I growled, kicked rocks, and reluctantly it ran off. This time it brought its shepherd buddy, and now I have two charging me. Damn near wet myself because I neither saw nor heard any human/owner, so I pulled my knife and prepared for the worst. Scared them off again (somehow), when I finally hear the owners calling. Rounded the bend, fished a flat, when I suddenly see a big dog 75yds upstream. Double take...Wait, too big for a dog and too muscular for a deer. So I get a closer look....Mountain lion, starring me down. Backed slowly away and got the hell of out there.

So I guess my questions are:

1. Have you or anyone you know seen a mountain lion, bear, etc. on the Cedar?
2. What's the best personal defense device to protect against wildlife in the rare event you're attacked? Looking for something that's formidable, but also won't have me facing charges, sued, or result in unnecessary harm.

Tight Lines

1) I have never seen a bear or cougar on the Cedar but I did see a pile of bear scat on the trail last weekend. This was pretty close to where you saw the kitty.

2) I carry a 9mm or .45 Auto when I fish. I don't own a .44 magnum so in Montana it's a .45 Auto and Bear Spray.
 
#40
Guys been watching Mutual of Omaha, Grizzly Adams reruns too much. Rarely will a ML attack, the only situation that may provoke an attack is if you run away. Most ML attacks are do to runners in ML country or kids on bikes... that's my experience. In the case you confront one, the best thing you can do is be aggressive, walk towards it and throw rocks sticks at it. And if you have to shoot one a .22cal will kill it in a heartbeat. In your situation it's surprises me that a ML would be in close proximity to large dogs, the only thing I can think of is it may have been retrieving cubs up a tree from the dogs in the area??

I've been on a few lion hunts and we harvested a couple of them. After getting a close look at the claws/teeth on these animals, they're impressive killing machines and I think in your case I'd rather take on a half domesticated dog than one of these lions.
 

martyg

Active Member
#41
I encountered a Cougar once when I was 17. I made myself appear larger. Worked out great. We've been married 30 years now. She's not quite as spry now, so I've been going hiking again. I love wildlife. Hope this helps.
Fly - where did you encounter this cougar? Did it have kittens with it? Did you have protection? Feel free to PM the location to me if you wouldn't mind - especially if you think that there might still be kittens around.

I've seen web sites featuring wild cougars but no one is revealing locations to their secret spots!
 

scottr

Active Member
#42
Guys been watching Mutual of Omaha, Grizzly Adams reruns too much. Rarely will a ML attack, the only situation that may provoke an attack is if you run away. Most ML attacks are do to runners in ML country or kids on bikes... that's my experience. In the case you confront one, the best thing you can do is be aggressive, walk towards it and throw rocks sticks at it. And if you have to shoot one a .22cal will kill it in a heartbeat. In your situation it's surprises me that a ML would be in close proximity to large dogs, the only thing I can think of is it may have been retrieving cubs up a tree from the dogs in the area??

I've been on a few lion hunts and we harvested a couple of them. After getting a close look at the claws/teeth on these animals, they're impressive killing machines and I think in your case I'd rather take on a half domesticated dog than one of these lions.

From a few years ago, kitties like fish. Good thing the Cedar is C&R.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/may0703a/

May 07, 2003
Contact: Capt. Murray Schlenker, (360) 906-6714
or Margaret Ainscough, (360) 902-2408

WDFW searching for cougar, alerting residents after Kalama River angler accosted

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) enforcement officers this morning issued safety warnings to residents near a section of the Kalama River while a private hound hunter continued searching for a cougar that reportedly jumped a male angler yesterday, knocking him to the ground.

The man, a Fort Lewis resident in his mid-30s, was not injured but his frame backpack showed claw marks.

WDFW officers, assisted by a hound hunter, searched the area about 10 miles northeast of Kalama for several hours yesterday afternoon after interviewing the angler.

The man told officers he was jumped from behind and knocked face-first to the ground as he was hiking out from the Kalama River shortly before 11 a.m. yesterday with a 25-pound chinook salmon wrapped in a plastic bag and tied to the outside of a frame backpack. When he rolled to his side to get up he saw a "huge" cougar disappearing into a brushy area about 12 to15 feet away. The man hiked out to a nearby mini-mart where he encountered a state hatchery worker who reported the incident to WDFW officers.

Hunting hounds summoned to the area of the attack were able to pick up the cougar's scent yesterday afternoon, but with daylight waning could not follow the cat's trail into a steep area. The hound hunter returned to the area this morning after suspending the search yesterday evening.

Meanwhile this morning, a WDFW officer visited a residential area along Greenwood Road above the area where the cat disappeared to alert residents and children who wait along the road for school buses. The enforcement officers plan to distribute written cougar safety information to area residents later today.

"We are following up to protect the public," said Murray Schlenker, the WDFW regional enforcement captain for southwest Washington. "We consider this an extremely serious incident."

Under WDFW policy, cougars that attack humans are tracked and killed.

The department offers the following safety tips for citizens who live in or near cougar habitat:

  • Closely supervise children playing outdoors, and make sure they are indoors by dusk, when cougars are more active.
  • Keep pets indoors or in secure kennels at night, and never leave pet food or food scraps outside.
  • Light walkways and remove heavy vegetation near the house.
  • Store garbage in secure containers so odors do not attract small animals that are prey for cougars.
If you encounter a cougar:

  • Stop, stand tall, pick up small children and don't run. A cougar's instinct is to chase.
  • Do not approach the animal, especially if it is near a kill or with kittens.
  • Try to appear larger than the cougar. Never take your eyes off the animal or turn your back. Do not crouch down or try to hide.
  • If the animal displays aggressive behavior, shout, wave your arms and throw rocks to convince the cougar that you are not prey, but a potential danger.
  • If the cougar attacks, fight back aggressively and try to stay on your feet.
To report a cougar encounter that is a risk to human safety, immediately contact the Washington State Patrol, which will relay the incident to WDFW enforcement officers or call the WDFW emergency incident hotline at 1-(800)477-6224.

For more information on cougars see Living with Cougars in Washington on the WDFW website.
 

10incher

Active Member
#43
I will never hesitate to mace a dog if its chasing me on my bike. I've done it right in front of the dog's owner a few times, and never looked back. In fact, I need to get some more mace. I plan to stock up on a variety of "dispensers."
I try to never let the dog win. Its become a personal vendetta. I don't go looking for it, and most dogs like me, and i like most dogs, but I would not hesitate to kill a dog that was attacking me. In fact, I think any uncontrolled dog which attacks a human should be put down. If the irresponsible dog owner makes an issue about it, I'll threaten to press charges of reckless endangerment for allowing a vicious beast to wander uncontrolled and threaten to sue his sorry ass. The onus is on the dog owner, not the attack victim.

In fact, I'm currently shopping for a new fixed blade knife, with a long blade, to wear on my belt while fishing. Don't really like the ones I now have for this purpose. My folding knife is too slow to open with only one hand, and the blade isn't all that long. A solid wading staff with a carbide tip might be a good defense against marauding dogs, too.
I use to wear a 10" blade bowie (before it was stolen) on a shoulder rig for fast access and to keep it out of the water. I'm currently carrying a more precious bowie that I made. But since it's tool steel I don't want to continue this practice. Water and non stainless blades don't get along. But the shoulder rig is trick. I cut the snapping lock strap off the sheath so access is instant (perhaps even with a cougar chawing on your head) yet the knife rides and rests very well behaved. I don't know if knife shoulder rigs are commercially available. I made mine.

Incidentally, I started carrying the knife because I was seeing too many mountain lions on the Ca. streams I was fishing. At the time I had a 13YO daughter (which means 13 to 15YO boys around) and I didn't want to get a firearm. I've actually shot my whole life. But that's how I know that there is no measure of safety up to the challenge of young teenage boys ;) So I got the knife instead figuring that I would most likely (at least) survive a cat attack as long as I kept it close.
 

Lugan

Joe Streamer
#44
By the way, did you know these posts show up on Google searches? I was looking to buy some waders so I typed in "waders" on Google and it linked to a problem I had with wedding arrangements on this site. I was mortified. So if you know anything about erasing my life from Google, please advise.

In the meantime, I publicly state for the record that she is only 5 weeks older and I am in a state of constant domestic bliss. And really glad we can use fake names here.
Google/Bing, and the long afterlife of everything on the interwebs is why I won't use my real name on an open forum. Closed (to search engines) is a different story.
 

10incher

Active Member
#45
Worrying about being eaten by a black bear or a cougar in MOST angling locations is about as relevant as worrying about being killed by lighting or eaten by a shark.
Except that we don't generally fly fish in a thunder storm or where sharks are swimming!!! These are typically cited incidents. I'm reminded of the Steve Irwin accident. A lot of people came forward with the rare odds of being hit right in the heart by a stingray. What these statistics neglect is that if only one in fifty thousand people swim with stingrays, and one in a million people are stung... The odds of getting stung IF YOU SWIM WITH STINGRAYS are one in twenty!!! Obviously no one is being stung by stingrays at Macy's!!! My point is, if you set yourself up in the right (or wrong) circumstances you are far more likely to become a statistic than anybody else. Many people fish where bears and cougars live. Awareness isn't just idle forum banter.
 

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