Scadden vs Outcast


5-Time Puget Sound Steelhead Guide of the Year
My next purchase for fishing will definitely be a boat of some kind. Granted this purchase will be a while down the road as I save up, but I just want to get some preliminary info.

It seems the Outcast Commander is crazy popular and its hard to find a bad review about it. That is the style of boat and price range that I would be looking at purchasing. Scadden has like 30 boats so I'm not sure which one I'd look at in particular, but his boats seem popular on this site.

My main question right now is in regards to Scadden's stuff. I have always had in the back of my mind this idea that they are really good boats -- mainly as a result of reading stuff on this forum. Sure there are jokes about his oars and not returning calls, but there haven't been any scathing reviews.

However, when I spent 30minutes on google/other forums it seems that the opinion changes in that Scadden boats are just awful and some of the worst ones out there. Some even go on to claim that Dave is a crook. I mean no offense if you own one, as I realize everything posted on the net must be taken with a grain of salt. I'm merely curious as to what your thoughts are on these two companies as I was quite taken back by a lot of stuff that is posted about Dave elsewhere on the net. I realize every product will get some shit flung at it, but when I'm going to be dropping this much coin on something that I'm trusting with my life I just want to get to the bottom of it.

My main uses will be lakes and the S rivers. Possibly some deschutes action as well.

I searched thru old threads for a bit and couldn't really find a direct comparison so I decided to make a new thread.

Thanks guys

Evan Virnoche

if you notice alot of the negative reviews are from rafting specific sites. Alot of people call bs to his class 3 or class 4 rating on the frameless versions. I too question his rating on these as well.

However you can take a dam innertube down gnarly rapids if you know what your doing.its all in the oarsmen.

i reccomend you buy a toon with frame or the option to add a frame. That outcast pac 900 is a pretty good deal here on the site


Active Member
If you search through previous posts in this forum on Scadden boats you will notice the same recurring storyline. Anytime his boats are brought up it evokes numerous responses about horrible customer service, back-orders, and in some cases faulty equipment. Usually sprinkled within these accounts are a couple staunch Scadden advocates who claim these stories are made up and none of its his fault.

With Outcast you will never see this kind of dialog in discussions about their products. Same goes for Bucks and most other reputable brands. They tend to have a very high rate of customer satisfaction. That should be the only comparison you need.

Evan Burck

Fudge Dragon
Having dealt with Outcast on numerous occasions, and seeing the guys on the Fly Fishing Show circuit, I can't say anything but good about them. Their boats are worth every penny, and they are stand up guys when it comes to customer service.


Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater
Another vote for Outcast products. I own four of their crafts ranging from a Super Fat Cat to a 143D raft.
Everytime I've had any type of question or issue (which isn't often), their customer service response has been nothing short of phenomenal


Not to be confused with freestoneangler
Another vote for Outcast! Great company, great products and fantastic customer service. I think I have 8 things made by Outcast from a 2-person pontoon to a float tube. The newest boat is at least 10 years old and still going strong!


Scadden boats may be nice and you might get good customer service. Outcast boats are very nice and you will get excellent service. I'm not very good at craps so I prefer not to roll the dice.

Just my .02.
After all the research I have done, it will be the outcast pac-900 for me.
I have nothing bad to say about Outcast. I have a Fish Cat Deluxe float tube, and it's a fine tube. But don't discount Scadden products. I have the Renegade and love it. It's a solid, tough pontoon. I fish only stillwater, (unless I'm stream fishing). The Renegade weighs only 28 pounds. It inflates and sets up quickly. I can't imagine anyone not being very satisfied with a Scadden tube or toon. I have read the negative comments about Scadden's service. I have had two positive experiences. I spoke by phone directly with him and ordered a replacement D-ring patch. It arrived quickly, and at no charge to me. I also ordered upgraded oars, and got them promptly (but they were expensive).

I just returned from an 8 day trip fishing trip to the Eastern Sierras. I left the Renegade outside of my rented cabin, and a hungry bear tore up my strap on side bags...looking for food. I'm going to have to order some new ones. I hope that the customer service will be good. My fingers are crossed. But the pontoon itself is first-class.
Scadden has ONE thing going for him - that is his innovation - I give him credit for that. He has developed some interesting, innovative, products, BUT, I use an analogy to describe NFO boats this way: When I played highschool football some years back my coach used to say "trick plays are for weak teams, it's execution that wins championships." It's hard to argue with my coach - he is the winning-est coach in numbers of championships in BC Senior Football Highschool History. I look at Scadden as sort of trick play of pontoon craft. Sure, they may work a few times, and it's always cool to see a double reverse by a football team, but the best players & teams do a few things well as opposed to trying to do a lot of things poorly. The good players & teams deliver at that critical moment when it is needed, not fumble the ball.

When I started doing my research on pontoon craft, Outcast was consistently raved about for producing a top quality product with unwavering product support. Scadden produced an innovative product but they have at times questionable durability (I've heard enough stories that make me doubt how they would stand up to rigorous use compared to Outcast or Bucks products), questionable quality accessories/fit & finish, AND consistently (never once have I heard of any improvement, I'm still hearing of problems today) lacking customer product support. Combined with some questionable marketing & sales tactics I've heard being utilized to sell NFO boats caused me to become severely put off at even considering NFO products. Sorry - that's the honest truth. Some of you MAY have had a different experience, but that is mine and it created enough doubt in my mind to make me vote with my money. If you like NFO products all the power to you and enjoy your craft!

Outcast has answered everyone of my phone calls & emails in a timely, brutally honest manner. If I could go back and do it again I would buy the PAC 1100 again everytime and I HIGHLY recommend you consider the 1100 (11' toons) if you will be drifting rivers often. It's not THAT big in the grand scheme of things. On top of their excellent product support, Outcast is owned by AIRE, who is well regarded in the whitewater rafting & catarafting community as producing top quality products with excellent product support. So many products, accessories, production methods, and accessories have in a way trickled down from the AIRE line into the Outcast line.

Greg Armstrong

I own an Outcast Trinity and it's great for its intended use and I'm happy with it.

I also own a Scadden Renegade and it's also been a super boat for me for its intended use.

I have had good service from both companies, but I guess some will just say I lead a charmed life!