Because swinging guys are so hung up on not giving up on the idea that indicator fishing isn't fly fishing, even though they know deep down inside that it really is, but they want their club to be super duper exclusive, you know like back in the "good ole days" "It's simple boys, read the sign on the door, no blacks aloud."
My condolences for your obvious psychological pain and suffering, I can see now how profoundly all of that effort to catch a steelhead with an inferior method impacted you personally and why you might assume all indicator fisherman are Johnnies. I can also see how you might want to take out your frustration on everyone who didn't follow the same path to marginal success that you did. I can see that you need to tell yourself that you are better because you chose to do things the "hard way", it is likely the only way you can live with yourself. Although I have never even come close to being offended by anything you or any other swinging zealot have had to say, I do feel sorry for you now.
All my fellow indicator fly fisherman, let's give these poor swingers a break and let them live with the consequences of how they chose to chase steelhead. If they want to tell the world that the only true stellhead fly fisherman are those who swing, lets give that to them, even though we know the truth. It looks like they need it more than we do, poor fellows.
so are indicators an abortion or gay. and what's with the ideas that old or traditional are inferior. perhaps some tradition and reverence would do you well. i mean you teach right? do you tell your students about the before times, before bobbers and x box or do you see tv as the new book?
Since you brought up the whole abortion and homosexuality issue, I'll leave that to you (to close to the whole political thing we are not allowed to talk about). I will certainly openly without issue say that some old traditions are highly inferior and I do not think for a second that embracing those traditions with any form of reverence would do me well. Would embracing new technologies do you well?
It is my sense of history by the way and a clear understanding of positive advancement through the use of technology that allow me to enjoy this conversation (if it is getting to personal though for you, I can certainly back off, again I've believed this has been all in fun) and to connect with my students. The X-Box, TV, smart phones, twitter, indicators and other technological advances in themselves are not bad things. Having a single unimaginative understanding of these things without discretion is though in my opinion and it seriously lacks just those 21st century skills I need to be teaching my students. So yes, TV can be the next book, why not? What is the intended outcome of books? If I read on a kindle, I guess I can call it reading but to embrace traditionalism and reverence for the old paper technology I can't call it reading a book. "Have you read that new book by Steven King?" "No, but I did read the words that are in the book on my Kindle."
Fair enough, said in jest just like the rest of this thread, and it was to easy of a set up. I shouldn't have put it out there the way I did. I could have come up with a better analogy that would have been funny and not stepped over that invisible line. Instead of leaving though offer me a better suggestion to make my Good Ole Boy joke. Maybe the sign is on the outside of the oxymoronic Monogamous nymphing fly fishers club and the sign says no swingers allowed. Better.
i also think its jealousy that makes a man shout down the penetant, hard working, patient man and proclaim his sorry short cut better. there's learning in those eons of fruitless swinging trying for more than a fish, but for the reward of doing a job the right way. if you are all about evolution and invention in the name of efficiency get a spinning rod and some jigs.
i will concede skagit heads are the kindle. i will however not concede that indicators and shot are fly fishing. i also think its jealousy that makes a man shout down the penetant, hard working, patient man and proclaim his sorry short cut better. there's learning in those eons of fruitless swinging trying for more than a fish, but for the reward of doing a job the right way. if you are all about evolution and invention in the name of efficiency get a spinning rod and some jigs.
I tried the spinning rod and jig and to be honest it doesn't work as well. I've fished next to gear guys with floats and except for only one case (Evan Burke and his center pin) I've out fished them all using the fly rod. I've even attempted to help some of those gear guys rig up the same way that I am with my flies and it just doesn't seem to work as well, they can't accomplish the same float. And that is where the center pin comes in. Although in that one case Evan was a bit off his game and I landed more steel than he did, he just hooked a couple more than I did. I would never argue though that center pin fishing is fly fishing because you do not use the weight of the line to cast the leader and fly. Just as I wouldn't say that listening to a book on tape would be the same as reading the book.
Would you concede that a dry dropper is fly fishing?
I kinda always wanted me a regular like name, I'm thinkin I like Johnny, can my last name be Johnny as well.
"Johnny Johnny, how has the fishin been today?"
"Oh, I've walloped me a whole load of them metal heads using this here advanced indicator set up that is Oh so superior to to that swingin crap."
"Indicator set up? You dirty greedy good for nothing Johnny"
So if I put a shooting head fly line on my center pin reel and attach it to my two hander along with all the bobbers, split shot, and beads.... "Abra Ca DA-bra, Peanut Butter Sandwiches"....... I'm fly fishing!
You gotta work at it to get Johnson to bow out. I know. I've tried....he doesn't leave over inconsequential shit. If I got that reaction from him, I'd take a step back....and I rarely take a step back. Trust me, I can be a truly offensive man.
Bobbers are not a technological advancement. Neither are lead shot. Available for ages...never flyfishing, still not flyfishing, never to be flyfishing.
My only issue in arguments like this is that some people seem to think that everyone picks one method and that's the only way they fish.
It's like when people bitch about "gear guys." Am I a gear guy? Yes. Am I a fly fisherman? Yes.