Critique me

#17
I agree with yellowlab.... what pieces of junk! You should give it up. Why on earth did you even bother taking photos?

:D

If it was a tying competition, the wing is too tall for the Royal Coachman (the height is supposed to equal twice the distance of the hook gap) but for fishing purposes, I prefer the wing a little taller so it's perfect for me. ...
Pictures were from right after I finished, and I had that "Holy crap, that looks about right" moment.

Thanks for the wing comment. I'll try 2x the hook gap next time. I was shooting for length of the hook, and that does seem a little long.

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ScottP

Active Member
#18
Jason,

For the Royal Coachman
wing/tail look a bit long (I use shank length as a guide)
wing's a bit forward
hackle is a bit undersized (an inexpensive hackle gauge is worth having)

Western Coachman
wing looks a bit sparse (is it deer hair?)
proportions look good

Wired Stonefly looks good; nice wrapping of the body.

Check out Charlie Craven's website http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/ for some great tutorials. YouTube's an excellent resource, but sometimes vids can go by too fast.

Proportions (material amounts/position on the hook) and thread torque/tension; manage them and you can tie just about any trout fly well.

Regards,
Scott
 
#19
Jason,

For the Royal Coachman
wing/tail look a bit long (I use shank length as a guide)
wing's a bit forward
hackle is a bit undersized (an inexpensive hackle gauge is worth having)

Western Coachman
wing looks a bit sparse (is it deer hair?)
proportions look good

Wired Stonefly looks good; nice wrapping of the body.

Check out Charlie Craven's website http://www.charliesflyboxinc.com/ for some great tutorials. YouTube's an excellent resource, but sometimes vids can go by too fast.

Proportions (material amounts/position on the hook) and thread torque/tension; manage them and you can tie just about any trout fly well.

Regards,
Scott
Thanks, and yes on YouTube. I have to pause/rewind a lot.

The is not deer hair actually. It's white hen hackle. Basically, after cutting off the tips for wings, pinch the gap together and tie it on and then separate. I think that is referred to as "Catskill style".

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jjaims

Active Member
#21
I like the wired stone. I've just recently tied some up because they seem like they will sink super fast. Tie on a smaller nymph behind an dredge! Great looking ties in my opinion.
 
#23
I like the wired stone. I've just recently tied some up because they seem like they will sink super fast. Tie on a smaller nymph behind an dredge!

They are super heavy. I'm pretty sure I could cast one on a light/ultra-light gear rod. About scared to try it on one of my fly rods.
 

jjaims

Active Member
#24
I've never broke a fly rod casting heavier fly's. I cast streamers with my 4wt in certain situations . It's not ideal but It's possible. I've broke many gear rods though. Mostly salmon fishing. I have a lot of confidence in my rods.
 

FT

Active Member
#25
"Catskill style" dry flies, if tied with hackle tip wings like some of them use, is tied as you describe and tied on these flies. "Catskill style" dries use hackle that is about 1.25 times hook gap length and that is tied with 3 wraps behind the wing, 2 in front. They also have the wings about hook shank in length. Their tails are also on the sparse side. In other words, "Catskill style" dries are 'lightly dressed', which means sparse.
 
#26
I have to admit I generally don't try to stay true to specific "styles". I'll find a technique I like, such as the wings, and use it wherever. Mainly because I can't seem to remember the specifics for the recipes to well.

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GAT

Dumbfounded
#27
The formula for tying Catskill style patterns is simply a starting point. The fish don't give a damn. There's also a formula for wet flies and even nymphs, streamers and Atlantic salmon style patterns.

Here's the formulas for a traditional dry fly and nymph and they only make a difference to humans and even then, only if you enter a fly tying competition... or if you're anal retentive. There's also formulas for a traditional wet fly, streamer and Atlantic Salmon style patterns.

Dry fly:
Wing: twice the length of the hook gape
Body: Extends from the bass of the wing to just above the hook barb and should taper towards the tail
Rib: Even spirals of four or five turns
Hackle: Fibers should extend a half to twice the hook gape
Tail: Fibers extend one and a half times the body length or twice the hook gape
Head: Equal to the length of the hook eye

Nymph:
Body: Two-thirds or half the length of the hook shank
Thorax: Half or one third the length of the hook shank or longer for larger nymph representations
Rib: Four turns unless a long shank hook is used
Hackle: Equal to the hook gape
Tail: One third the length of the hook shank
Head: Equal to the length of the hook eye

(the formula for a traditional style Atlantic Salmon style pattern goes on and on and on)

When you think about it, artificial fly patterns don't usually look anything close to the actual bug so what difference does it really make? I've yet to see any mayfly dun that looks remotely close to a traditional dry fly. I'm not sure why the Catskill patterns are tied as they are. Did they even look at a real dun or just come up with a theory design?

The actual bug (notice the length of the wing is actually longer than the abdomen and thorax):

Mayfly.jpg


First off, the hackle feathers do not hold the front of the pattern off the surface of the water -- they sink. The tail is basically worthless because most mayfly duns have very long, one or two split tail fibers... not a clump of fibers.

The formula for a nymph is closer but all the natural nymphs I've collected have a thorax area half the size of the entire bug, not just the front third... I don't know what that came from:

37174588.jpg

So, while the formulas give you a starting point, they only really make a difference to the eye of a human when tying an artificial fly.
 

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