Steelhead are trout. Trout and salmon, as well as char, whitefish, and grayling, are salmonids, of the family Salmonidae. Your waitress and manager are ignorant, as are most people who aren't fish freaks, about fish species. Your description of them makes it appear that they don't know that there are several species of salmon and that they are not all the same.

BTW, whoever the WDEF is, doesn't make rulings about steelhead and salmon taxonomy or nomenclature anytime, let alone four years ago. The American Fisheries Society in 1989 did however change the Latin scientific name of steelhead from Salmon gardnerii to Oncorynchus mykiss. Steelhead did not become a different species in the process however. Only God or evolution or genetic engineering can do that.

Steelhead from the Quinault are mostly hatchery fish, at least until about February. So it's unlikely that you were served wild steelhead. Still, if you aren't keen on the notion of commercial fishing for steelhead, regardless of whether they are hatchery or wild, it's worthwhile letting a restaurant know that you won't eat there and will encourage others not to either.

Sg

 

Not even close to the same. Good for you. Not to rag on the natives, but the comercial indigenous fishing operations are killing our wild steelhead populations, especially in BC.

 

those people have no idea what they're talking about. pisses me off when resturaunt owners sell seafood without any knowledge of the resource they're impacting

 

A number of years ago steelhead, as well as rainbow trout (which are genetically indistinguishable from steelhead) and cutthroat were reclassified from the genus Salmo which includes the Atlantic salmon (S. salar) and the brown trout (S. trutta) to the genus Oncorhynchus, the genus of the Pacific salmons. Thus the steelhead/rainbow (formerly S. gairdneri) became O. mykiss and the cutthroat (formerly S. clarki) became O. clarki. The decision was made to reclassify these fish because of their relatively closer morphological and genetic relationship to the Pacific salmons than to the brown trout and Atlantic salmon. So, yes, in the eyes of the taxonomist, steelhead/rainbow and cutthroat are Pacific salmons.

 

I vote good for you. Based on replies, you should now be confident that steelhead are trout, and Salmon are salmon. Wild steelhead should not be killed - period. Color me steelhead nazi if you wish...

I would recommend going a step further and letting them know that you would be sharing your information with 3918 (by today's count) other members of the fly fishing community along with your recommendation that they do not patronize that particular establishment. Please, in the interest of public service, let us know the name of the restaurant in question.

Preston - while your information may well be correct and accurate, I refuse to accept it, and plan to stubbornly hold on to my apparently outdated perception, along with the belief that Pluto is still a planet. And further, it matters not to me what you call them, S. gairdneri or O. mykiss, anyone who kills a wild one should be flogged. my $.02

 

Please, in the interest of public service, let us know the name of the restaurant in question.

I sent an e-mail to the owner of the restaurant, along with a link to this thread.

If it was just a matter of general cluelessness, and he indicates a heightened awareness and concern for the problem, and a willingness to address it, I'm not going to reveal the name.

If however, I don't get a timely response, or it looks like he doesn't give a rat's ass about it, I'll gladly post it so you can all make your own decision about whether to give him your money.

I'll keep y'all posted on how it develops........

 

Preston,

Just another example proving the adage "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up" :rofl::rofl:

My question is: in light of the fact that many Pacific Salmon stocks are endangered or near extinct or threatened, why would anyone order any wild salmon??

Regards,

 

My question is: in light of the fact that many Pacific Salmon stocks are endangered or near extinct or threatened, why would anyone order any wild salmon??

Taken as a percentage of a whole, very few salmon stocks are threatened.

Taken as a percentage of a whole, most salmon fisheries are for healthy, well managed stocks.

The alternative is to eat farmed, or none at all.

I myself wouldn't touch farmed salmon, knowing what goes into them. Even if they weren't considered environmental pollutants, I wouldn't eat them.

IMHO, and YMMV,
Mark

 

Maybe they'll start advertising it as Hatchery Reared Steelhead Salmon so as to not ruffle the feathers of those who oppose the C&K of wild steel!

But seriously, good work, Snake- you may be a catalyst for change.

 

What restuarant was it ?

 

Nice Tatt, Jeff! :thumb: (even if it is taxonomically outdated......:rofl:)



PM sent.

My question is: in light of the fact that many Pacific Salmon stocks are endangered or near extinct or threatened, why would anyone order any wild salmon??

Regards,

Good question. Maybe I shouldn't have ordered the 'wild salmon' in the first place. Kinda hypocritical, myself, if parsed out to the logical end conclusion. But it seems like wild salmon stocks are a whole lot better than wild steel. :hmmm:

My main problem was the lack of full disclosure. I felt like I was purposefully duped.

 

They may belong to the same genus but they are different species. A genus often contains many individual species. For instance: tigers, leopards and lions belong to the same genus but I doubt many people would say they are the same animal. Calling a leopard a lion is the same as calling a steelhead/rainbow trout a salmon.

I would ask him if he would list sockeye salmon on the menu but serve rainbow trout instead - that is essentially what he is doing. I will never patronize a restaurant that serves wild steelhead and if I felt a restaurant was trying to hide something, I’d figure out to whom I could report it.

 

They may belong to the same genus but they are different species. A genus often contains many individual species. For instance: tigers, leopards and lions belong to the same genus but I doubt many people would say they are the same animal. Calling a leopard a lion is the same as calling a steelhead/rainbow trout a salmon.

"I would ask him if he would list sockeye salmon on the menu but serve rainbow trout instead "

iagree, Right where I was going when I read your response.

 

I suspected it is probably illegal to label or call a steelhead a salmon, and it appears that it is illegal (though I'm no lawyer). Notice the defintion of 'salmon' by Washington state law specifically excludes 'game fish' which would include steelhead and any other trout.

RCW 69.04.932
Salmon labeling - Definitions.

Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout RCW 69.04.933 through 69.04.935.

(1) "Salmon" means all species of the genus Oncorhynchus, except those classified as game fish in Title 77 RCW, and includes:

SCIENTIFIC NAME COMMON NAME
Oncorhynchus tshawytscha Chinook salmon or king salmon
Oncorhynchus kisutch Coho salmon or silver salmon
Oncorhynchus keta Chum salmon
Oncorhynchus gorbuscha Pink salmon
Oncorhynchus nerka Sockeye salmon
Salmo salar (in other than Atlantic salmon
its landlocked form)

(2) "Commercially caught" means salmon harvested by commercial fishers.

RCW 69.04.933
Salmon labeling - Identification of species - Exceptions - Penalty.

With the exception of a commercial fisher engaged in sales of fish to a fish buyer, no person may sell at wholesale or retail any fresh or frozen salmon food fish or cultured aquatic salmon without identifying the species of salmon by its common name to the buyer at the point of sale such that the buyer can make an informed decision in purchasing. A person knowingly violating this section is guilty of misbranding under this chapter. A person who receives misleading or erroneous information about the species of salmon and subsequently inaccurately identifies salmon shall not be guilty of misbranding. This section shall not apply to salmon that is minced, pulverized, coated with batter, or breaded.

 

What is the restaurants name?

Also would you want the restaurant to disclose whether the "Wild Salmon" came from a hatchery run or a truly Wild run of salmon?

 

What is the restaurants name?

PM sent.

I don't want to go public until I find out what the deal is.

But seriously, good work, Snake- you may be a catalyst for change.

I hope so........

 

I mean this nicely. You should have let it go. The waiter was just passing the info along. She/he obviously didn't know anything about the fish. The fish was probably a wild salmon caught and taken to the market. Sometime it's good to inform people about the dangers these wild fish endure and the possible fate that awaits them, but sometimes it's better to choose that time. I personally, the moment the waiter said "steelhead salmon" would have just eaten it knowing that the chances are the fish was just a salmon. I'm sorry you spoiled you dining experience, sounds like it would have been a nice time.
B.

 

Agreed. Wild steelhead is day and night different from wild salmon.

 

I think that the heart is in the right place folks but a lot of that anger/resentment/whatever needs pointed towards our lawmakers also. They are still working within the law which faulted or not is still the law.

Also I don't know many people (like none) that can tell by the fillet if it is Sockeye, silver, small king, or steelhead if it is really fresh.

 

I would like the government or the fishing industry to set regulations that would require markets and restaurants require following information.

1. Fresh or Frozen
2. Wild, Hatchery Origin or Farmed
3. River System Origin or Ocean Caught
4. Gill Net or Troll Caught
5. Supplier

A little transparency in the fishing industry would give consumers the tools necessary to make an informed decision when buying seafood.

 

Any fish that isn't farm raised is called wild in the restaurant biz. By wild, they mean it lived in the wild and not a net pen. Could be of hatchery origin or could be native. They're all caught in nets, so I'll be fishing the runoff of hell's glaciers before I buy any.

 

Dead spot on. Restaurants only seem to differentiate between "wild" and "farmed."

My mom served up some "farmed steelhead" on my last visit. She thought I'd enjoy it, as I have been getting skunked all Fall. She's 87 and getting older all the time, so I told her it was delicious! I did ask her to try to buy wild caught Alaska salmon in the future, and gently admonished her to avoid buying farmed fish or any wild steelhead in the future, as I am opposed to the commercial salmon farming industry and the commercial harvest of steelhead. She agreed. Thanks Mom!:thumb:

 

Please send pm of the name to me also. Thanks.

 

I might be the bad guy here, but you should of asked before you ordered it and since you had it in front of you, you should of eaten it. You weren't doing the fish any good because it is dead and it can't swim and lay eggs anymore.

But since I don't eat fish. It makes me no never mind.

Besides you said it was an Indian fish. They are allowed to catch and sell the reservation fish.

Jim

 

Wait a minute here.....Just hold on! You don't eat fish Jim! I guess that could be possible, don't eat it just catch it and let it go......OK

Now I was unaware of the fact the the fish in the resturant in question didn't get eaten either. :hmmm:

 

I make it easy when I'm ordering fish in a restaurant, make it cod, snapper, grouper, pollock, etc. No salmon, trout, steel head.
Eat beef, you don't know where it been either.
Another thing about restaurants is if ya really want to know whats on your plate, go back in the kitchen and look at what's under the counters.
9 times out of 10 you won't eat there ever again.

 

Best description I've ever heard for steelhead is "rainbow trout gone bad" ...

 

I dont eat at resaturants much but when i do and they serve any kind of fish, i always quiz them on it just to see what they know. and in most cases they dont have a clue.

Why i mention that is because you failed to do it and therefore i agree with a few others that you shouldnt have freaked out. First thing i ask is what kind of fish it is and then almost more importantly is if they know what technique was used to catch it. if they dont know the answer to one or both of these questions i wont buy it. i feel though that if you are dining at a fine restaurant that requires you to pay out 20-40 bucks for fish they should know what it is.

Im still wondering though if what you ordered was steelhead or salmon, you dont seem to know. did the manager ever figure it out? heres a hint if it was really delicious it was steelhead, if it was so-so it was salmon.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again- whenever the topic of farmed fish comes up: Please DO eat farmed fish folks!

Maybe not farmed salmon, there's some issues with that industry as it is currently practiced. However, you should definitely be choosing farmed fish over wild fish in general.

Overfishing is alive and well, and responsible for declining stocks of wild fish all around the globe. As with any other resource (for example; timber and every other food source) intensive culture for human consumption is the only logical, civilized and sustainable way to maintain supply without destroying wild stocks.

There are several well established, low-impact fish farming models that we all (those of us who like to eat fish) should be patronizing. Examples of these are farmed Tilapia, Catfish, rainbow trout and hybrid striped bass. These operations are less wasteful and less damaging to the environment than meat and poultry production, especially if they are conducted here in the US. Techniques for farming other species are improving.

Sure, there are a number of apparently well-managed wild stocks of fish out there that can produce a finite number of fish/year. These should be considered a premium priced delicacy, not food for the ever-growing masses. Those folks who think they are doing the world a favor by eating wild fish can only get away with it because everyone else is eating farm raised fish. God help us if they ever convince the other half to eat wild too!

I don't get worked up about much but fishermen making statements like "don't eat farmed fish" is one thing that really gets me going.

.. stepping off the soapbox-
Eric

 

Damn there is just a PILE of ignorance and self-righteousness on display here.

Do you think that some server, or even a proper Maitre'D, is going to know the ins and outs of the seafood industry?

Probably not. Your expectations of them to do so, and haughty dismissal of them when they fail to perform, is rather self-absorbed.

And speaking of self-absorbed, there are probably more wild and sustainable commercial fisheries in the US than Sustainable, minimal-impact seafood farms IN THE WORLD, and Alaska Wild Salmon at over 200 million fish is certainly sustainable, abundant, and very well-managed.

Do yourselves a favor and get educated on the fish you pursue for sport. They are someone else's livelihood, someone else's cultural heritage, and someone else's food. We can't all be rich enough to send it back.

 

Before we get down on Snake too much here, guys, most Seattle seafood restaurants, and certainly any that considers itself to be of a good quality as any in Pike Place Market should, will know where their salmon comes from. I routinely ask whether salmon is wild (which includes hatchery, as others point out, but not farmed) or farmed and I have never been told "I don't know" by any restaurant in the Seattle area. It is their business to know and to be able to answer their patrons' questions. If the server does not know, then he/she should offer to inquire (she seemed to know, but not to be very knowledgeable about salmon, and the manager did know where it came from).

I can understand Snake's being upset to have Steelhead being served as salmon and, as Freestone pointed out, the establishment probably was legally remiss in labeling steelhead as salmon to begin with. That said, sometime one has to simply cover one's upset and take the message to another venue, which Snake did by sending a note to the proprieter.

As far as the abundance of "wild and sustainable commercial fisheries in the US" or the world, they are tanking rapidly world-wide and the success of today's Alaska salmon fishery is no guarantee that it will survive 10, 20 or 50 years from now. Think how fast salmon stocks on the west coast have declined starting in California and moving north. I, for one, wouldn't bet on Alaska salmon being sustainable for very long in the face of changing climate and ocean conditions, increased demand, and increased fishing pressure from increasingly technologically advanced fishing fleets. We may live to tell our grandchildren about the seemingly unlimited supply of Alaska salmon that once returned to the rivers and streams of coastal Alaska, but do no more.

D