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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I am close to shore (with probable structure ) in my tube. #4 sinking line , 9' 5 wt with a , let's say, Muddler Minnow. Roll cast out 20 ft. then what? Wait 3 seconds so the backcast is loaded and then shoot out as much line as possible? False cast a few times to not spook the fish? Let the first short cast hit the water to load the rod for a second (or third) cast? Obviously I have no clue what I'm doing, however I would like to be able to present my fly effectively. Any input would be much appreciated, Jim
 

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Generally, hitting or slapping the water with the line and fly will spook fish. I suggest stripping line until slack is gone, lifting rod and pulling line with left hand to get line and fly in the air. Then as few false casts as needed to let line out and the final cast. U tube is your friend for some basic casting advise.
 

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previously micro brew
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You might get a copy of Tim Lockhart's newest book. Yes, I have dog in this fight with some comments on me and photo credits. It won't necessarily help you with casting but will help in understan what you are dealing with beneath the surface

I'm not big on roll casts in still water, I generally reserve them for moving water. Try loading on a backcast in the water rather than in front of you. Or, depending on how far you cast, work with what you got. You can always practice on grass lawns / fields.

You might also consider some lessons before you get too many bad habit to overcome, which is what I had to do.

Keep asking the questions and you will learn a lot from this motley crew.

Mb
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the input guys. I bought Tim's 1st book on my I phone. A joy to read and "well worth the money" is an understatement. Loading in the water for the backcast is what seems to work best for me but I've been trying the false cast thing for the stealthiness (is that a word?) Tangled line in the "apron" seems problematic. After an internet search I've cleaned and stretched my line (helped some). In the Eastern Sierras a sneeze (literally) would spook the Browns, and I would sometimes crawl on my belly, in cammo to make an approach, so slapping the water with a sinking line seems counterproductive. I would kill for a lesson in casting from a tube. But right now I'll have to settle for you tube videos and watching "real" fly fisherman. Cheers, Jim
 

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Keep at it. And, do ask for advice. I don't give unsolicited advice even when I see a problem.

Be patient on the forward and back cast and let the line / rod work for you, not against you.

Eventually, you will develop "the feel" when things are working well. Of course, things can fall apart, for al of us, and we have to go back to the basics.
 

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It's a 5 wt rod. You might try switching out the 4wt line for a 5 or even a 6 to increase the load for casting. My experience has been that overlining makes a rod a helluva lot easier to cast than underlining. YMMV.

Suggestion- don't know whether it's applicable to you, but start your backcast with the rod tip right on the surface, not tilted up in the air. That way you are loading from the get go and not wasting a third of your backstroke just picking slack line out of the air.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The line is a 5wt but sinking #4. But I wondered if a 6wt would load the rod more. Keeping the tip low at the beginning has helped."Single hauling" seems to help load the rod and I am working on the "double haul". Is the double haul commonly used from a tube? In the wind I have been trying to cast from the side with the rod not straight up and down. Is this also a common practice? I get better every time out but having some tips and new things to try is fun. All the input is much appreciated, Jim.
 

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I've never found that one presentation works all the time.

For that reason, I vary my retrieve. Some fish will hit the pattern a few seconds after it sinks. Others prefer to take it deeper in the column. Some like a slow strip. Some like the pattern stripped back like a banshee.

This is where trial and error comes in for flyfishing...
 

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Double hauling and shooting line is your best ticket. The extra yards gained by shooting line are yards of water that you didn't spook fish in by false casting over fish.

That said, Steve Kokita is also correct about how to cover water and minimizing/managing the mess of line on your tube's apron.
 

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FISHON206
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Double hauling and shooting line is your best ticket. The extra yards gained by shooting line are yards of water that you didn't spook fish in by false casting over fish.

That said, Steve Kokita is also correct about how to cover water and minimizing/managing the mess of line on your tube's apron.
ceviche,
Call me Steve...we're all on a first name basis here. :)
 

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If your using a Type 4 sinking line i wouldn't be worried about spooking fish as your probably fishing a lot deeper than near the surface.. Why not troll around the contour of the shore and let out 3/4 of your line and not worry about casting so much.
 

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Dave. One of my all time favorites, I think he's fished with just about everyone.
Ain't been fishing much lately, though. I got back home from my last ship, back in the end of July. Less than a week later, severe back muscle spasms. Took six days before I could function again. Then me and my wife were off to the Deming Logging fairgrounds for the Subdued Stringband Jamboree for a few days. The next week was another road trip, this time to Oregon for the eclipse and two nights on the coast. Got back last Wednesday.

And guess what now: I'm off to sea again, having accepted a 6-week relief job today on another ship. Am I nuts?! Well, the alternative would have been waiting a few more months to find work either in San Francisco, Los Angeles, or Honolulu. Jobs are extremely scarce in Seattle, so having a relief job fall in my lap like it did was too good to pass up.

Gotta pack my bags now and report for work tomorrow at 8:00 am. Ship don't leave until Saturday morning (get to spend nights at home until then), but, hey, at least it'll put me back home for when the fish start putting the feed bag on. Waaaay too hot for trout fishing right now.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So after several more you tube videos I tried to get the hang of the double haul. Some say it's like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time. I worked on the timing (both first and second haul) while trying not to break my wrist, keep the backcast high, follow through etc.. I need a lot more practice but I did enjoy better casting. A brown trout liked my presentation but spit the hook after looking at me. However, several rainbows endured my net and I feel like I am on my way to becoming a better caster. Jim
 

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So after several more you tube videos I tried to get the hang of the double haul. Some say it's like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time. I worked on the timing (both first and second haul) while trying not to break my wrist, keep the backcast high, follow through etc.. I need a lot more practice but I did enjoy better casting. A brown trout liked my presentation but spit the hook after looking at me. However, several rainbows endured my net and I feel like I am on my way to becoming a better caster. Jim
Yep, YouTube is your friend. So many good casting instructional videos there.

To summarize and follow-up on some very good comments already made, and to chime in another:

1) Double hauling is great. But, most people walk before they run. I recommend highly that you get your rhythm, feel, and SINGLE HAUL down before you move on to the double haul. If you get a feel for timing - how long to pause on your forward and back cast - which is a function of the stiffness of the rod, the line you are casting (i.e. floating, sink tip, sinking), the length of your cast and how much line you can carry in the air, keeping your cast in plane on both the forward and back cast, etc., and if you really nail your single haul, the double haul is a very natural progression. A common problem I see is that people try to learn the double haul before they learn some of the other basics. I sometimes show folks how I can easily make 60' casts WITHOUT any type of haul at all. It's all about getting that rod to load (in physics terms, your rod is a 'flexible lever') and let it do the work for you.

Get that single haul down, and you'll be very happy. Not being proficient in the single haul, you won't get your double haul down (they are the same movement just on is accomplished ruign the backast and the during the forward cast).

2) What rod (brand, model, length) are you fishing? As noted elsewhere, often uplining most current/modern rods is a great way for novice or intermediate casters to get their rod to load, and to help them feel the rod load. I fished for baby tarpon a couple of years in Mexico and was paired with a guy who was fishing a new Sage 890-4 Xi3 with Tibor Everglades and new Rio Saltwater WF8F line. The guy couldn't get a 30' cast out, regardless of wind conditions. He couldn't even single haul. That night the trip coordinator and I traded out the guy's line with a WF10F line. That Xi3 has plenty of backbone to handle a 10 weight line. The fly fisher could then somewhat 'lob' (I hesitate to call it 'shoot') the line out because the rod would now flex. Lefty Kreh advocates beginners/novices sometime use shooting heads when learning to cast so the rod will load deeply more easily and the caster can get to 'feel' the rod.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Wow. Thanks for taking the time to give some guidance Richard E (and everybody else). I've actually been practicing (fishing) quite a bit and have improved (I think). I'm using a $200 Fenwick Aetos 9' 5wt (had good reviews) ( said to be fast), with 5wt #4 full sink line. After a roll cast (or short cast) I am initially using the water to load the rod and then (while flicking the paint off the brush) I'm using a very short, quick haul, trying to feed the line back before attempting a (short) forward haul. Frequently I forego the forward haul. Loading the rod on the forward stroke (among other things) is what I believe I need to work on. Having a fast rod and being a beginner uplining this rod is something I believe would be beneficial . Thanks again , Jim
 
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