Washington Fly Fishing Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,713 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading ******'s "Skykomish Combat" post, I'd hate to see everyone missing out on an opportunity. July 18th is the cut off date for public proposals on changes to the sportfishing rules. If you visit <http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/fish/regs/2004prop.htm>, you can download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule Proposal Package. Though I haven't checked out the form yet, it would seem that this is the last opportunity this year to effectively raise your voice to the powers that be. As soon as I finish this post, I'll be downloading the form. I would, as well, like to see those internal combustion powered guide boats banned from the rivers, as they kill the smolts and violently impose upon waters bank anglers are already fishing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,860 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

Don't mean to offend any of my sled friends but here's why I am opposed to their use:
1. They pollute the water with gasoline and oil discharged from their engines.
2. They are not compatible with the outdoor experience of peace and tranquillity that most anglers seek.
3. They kill fish, especially smolts.
4. They erode the banks of the river system and cause some of the siltation that destroys the spawn of anadromous and other fish.
5. They are almost universally hated by wading anglers who, unfortunately, throw rocks which may maime or kill one of the jetters if something is not done.
6. They are a threat to the life and limb of wading anglers who may not be able to move quickly enough from harm's way as one of the jetters rams his way around a turn.
7. They can access water that no one else can and thus deprive the resource of any protection from man--much needed in order for wild fish to spawn.
8. Most pilots behave very rudely and often harass drift and bank fishermen incessantly.
9. There is no license required to drive one of these dangerous (no brakes) vehicles and children and drunks are often seen at the helm.
10. They have no friends except each other and I doubt much of that exists either.

STOP THE ROGUES!
BOBLAWLESS
:reallymad :reallymad :reallymad :beathead x(
 

·
Formerly Tight Loops
Joined
·
1,341 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

I recommend that we all sign up to try to get WDFW to enact a ban on Jet sleds in the portions of rivers that have an average annual flow of less than 3500 cfs.

This flow is about the flow of the Snoqualmie River above the Tolt River. At the falls it is 3300 and at the Tolt it is about 3500.

I can't find another river that boats would be banned on in the Seattle area, but I can't find one.
 

·
Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
Joined
·
5,673 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

I think your problems with boaters would be better addressed to the State of Washington Boating safety Program, local County Sherrif's Marine and Boating Enforcement Patrols and the United States Coast Guard.

Some of the waters being used for jet boating are "Federally Navigable Waterways" and the U.S.C.G. has jurisdiction over those waters. If a jet sled operator on "navigable waters" is a guide he has to be USCG lisenced. And those operators are obliged to follow some stringent rules. Almost all of your concerns are addressed by law already. There is a process of filing a complaint and following through on that for these matters.

As for jet boats killing fish and destroying habitat, I think that would fall under "Operator Error". I have run a lot of miles on a lot of rivers in jet boats up north and in Russia. I never saw a fish killed by a jet boat. And I have not seen smolt laying around dead from being hit by or sucked through jet pumps.

I did cut a king salmon in half once, going full out, with a long shaft outboard and conventional prop,on the Alagnak River though. I heard stories about that every season. If these jet boats posed a truly serious threat to the fishery they would not be allowed by now. All power boats have the potential of doing harm to spawning beds and river banks, sand bars etc. Jet boats, especially properly equipped ones that are operating at an appropriate speed, do less damage than prop boats in river environments. That is obvious to anyone who has worked extensively in them.

The laws and regulations for safe and responsible boat operation are already there.So obviously there is an enforcement problem. This sounds a lot like the "gun control" thing; A few jerks want to prevent a few jerks from acting like jerks, and the rest of the people, most of whom behave responsibly, lose another freedom.
Good things come with freedom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,860 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

Out of the ten objections I listed as to why I am for a ban, not further unenforceable regulations, your argument addresses only three of the ten of those listed.
Name calling such as "a few jerks...etc." is not consistent with the decorum of this site and one of the moderators should have deleted it. The fact that such a remark came from a moderator makes it even more offensive.
I should think an apology is due here.
Bbobx(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,713 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

Isn't the Snoqualmie above the Tolt currently under some kind of boat restriction already? I'm kind of guessing here, but I was once at the boat ramp by the bridge above the Tolt/Snoq confluence, and there was this cop or WDFW guy on the ready to hand out citations. I think a cutoff date had passed, and dude was on the watch for bad guys. Anyone know more about this, and, as TightLoops pointed out, there might be a good rational that can be more broadly applied. Afte all, we must have a solid rational to support any policy change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

July 18 is the deadline. I got my form in person, at a WDFW meeting, they are being held all over the state to discuss these matters.

Jet sleds are only part of a larger problem. Recently I have seen a number of props on the river too, which seems stange. At least to me. who runs a prop on a river??? other than cutting fish it 2, doesn't it get damaged on rocks?? Or has it become catch a steelie at all costs.:hmmm Sad, but its real. back to the larger issue, listen, we must take care of all aspects of saving our native species: spawning habitat, clean rivers, limited access, and more C&R. Stopping the sleds is only a small part of that. but needed none the less. A few bad apples have spoiled the bunch, sorry flycasting sled owners, but they need to go. If I can't get to a spot on the river by floating it or hiking in, well, then I'm glad the fish have a save haven from humans, these places are becoming few and far between.

Bob and LS, I thought you boys were tight? Thick as thieves and all? What gives?:dunno

:beer2 YT:smokin
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,909 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

I agree with Little Stone, but understand the frustration. Remember: there is a contingent of sport-fishers who want to ban the wading fly guys because they traipse all over fish redds. They have a point, too.
 

·
Another Flyfisherman
Joined
·
749 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

Here's a thought on conservation while still preserving our beloved fishing

River Closures, yearly basis, Rotating

Why not select a few rivers, throught the state and CLOSE THEM COMPLETELY, not permanently, but we'll say a year at a time. Time the closures around the seasonal anadromous migrations as to maximize the protection and safety of the most fish. Sure this will put some folks into a blind tie-raid (sp) but little by little, EVERY ocean run river would get a rest. This will put some additional strain on some other rivers, but, for someone who TRULY does appreciate the resource, and keeps the resource near and dear to ones heart - what the hell is a year to have to fish somewhere else. This may cause people to get a little adventerous and try new things.

Lets say you take the cowlitz and close it completely off for a season. You get a couple SRC Runs, 2 steely runs, Coho, Chinook, Pink (odd number year), and chummers a whole run all to them selves, NO PEOPLE WHATSOEVER. 2 to 3 years from that rest period - if ocean conditions are right......the masses will be happy that ALL those fish sucessfully spawned and they will say, hell, that wasnt soo bad, this years run was HUGE!!!

maybe this is all just retarded mumbo jumbo, but I respect the resource more than my greed for landing a steelhead and I have YET to do that. I'll give it up for a year, or explore new places for a season....who cares. I've fished ALOT of water since I have been in washington (i got here in December) More rivers under my belt then all my years for flyfishing in Idaho and montana. this place is great, the fishing is true "once in a lifetime experience" for some (like me) and it takes a long hard look at what the problem REALLY is. Its not Jet Sleds, or hardware slingers, or catch and release, its a culmination of general OVERUSE and Abuse of the resource. How many hundreds of years does it take for a Clear Cut acre to grow back in to natural looking forested land.........steelhead and salmon didnt vanish over night and they wont return overnight. My soap box. I love the resource, sorry. I dont have a political degree or a bottomless bank account to make a damn bit of difference.....its just an idea that I have. Tight Lines!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,909 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

Good one Leyland! I have copies of the submission form with me. I'll send in one with the same request. What language did you use?

I have proposed year round C&R above Bacon Creek on the Skagit.
 

·
Just an Old Man
Joined
·
35,207 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

I forgot what I was supposed to remember.

It's not a bad idea but if you closed the Snohomish system you would end up closing the Skykomish and all it's tribs and there are quite a few, the Snoqualmie and it's tribs. You would be closing most of the rivers in the Seattle area.

They did that in the Wenatchee drainage and they still haven't opened it back up. And yet they planted many,many smolts in it and you can't even fish for them. They won't spawn, they'll try but I don't think they will be sucsessful. The only place that they didn't close was the Icicle,but below the hatchery it is. I'll get off my soap box now as this is a sore subject with me. To close a river and then plant it and don't let you harvest it.:-(

Jim
 

·
Patrick
Joined
·
1,805 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

Here is a couple of quick ideas
1 All people getting a license get a reg book with the license. None of this the reg book not coming out untill after the trout opener. By the time they come out I have had my license for well over a month sometimes more.

2 The front cover of the reg book should have a list of year round closed rivers, lakes and part of Puget Sound so its hard to miss. Instead of the pretty cover. Maybe even a list of the fines as well if room.

3 All rivers and streams should be barbless hook only and no treble hooks. An exception could be made for Sturgeon fishing if they want. A few of our largest rivers could also be exeptions.

4 the fines for fishing closed waters and for snagging should be at least doubled. 2nd offense a loss of fishing rights in Washington for 5 years and a taking of all gear including boat. Gear can be sold off to fund water protection and fines to pay for more enforcement not go to the Washington State general fund.

5. Cut down Rattle Snake lake to a 3 fish limit.

6. Open up Puget Sound beachs to year around catch and release.

7 A closing of small parts of each river system to give the fish places to rebuild like they are starting to do in Puget Sound.

Since I plan to fill out my copy and send it in soon I would like to get feed back from others on my own ideas and hear from other on their own.
 

·
Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
Joined
·
5,673 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

Back during Teddy Roosevelt's administration there were some proposals to sanctuary an American river in perpetuity. I think it may have been considered for the Elwha once.

People want freedom for themselves as long as there is no price to pay. When they have to change their behavior, or give something up,( in this case sacrifice=investment ), then they balk.

Opposition to the idea of a truely sanctuaried river was so intense in the nineteenth century that it was considered political suicide to pursue the matter any further.

I think the closest we come to anything like this today is the Elwha River Restoration Act and that project's slow but enduring progress. And still there are many who oppose the idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
364 Posts
Download the complete 2004-2005 Sportfishing Rule P...

The problem with rotating closers on a few rivers is that means the tribes get more fish. I believe it's called forgone opportunity. So all the returning fish won't all get to spawn, plus most the fish are hatchery fish (which are produced to be caught) so we will just be wasting more tax dollars since the hatcheries only keep a certain amount of fish then they kill and sell the exess fish or move them around to be caught by fisherman, which wouldn't happen if the river is closed. Just my 2 cents.

fly15
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top