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Dreaming of an impossible list...
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It feels like you answer your own questions; these things are fluid, and like highways and high school yearbooks, what once was may not be in the future. Best advice - go exploring and take good notes. The internet is exactly what you are looking for - you've found one of the best resources around with WFF.
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Mumbles has compiled a long list of shuttle services here. You might tap that list and the sources. You could ask Mumbles but given his latest avitar, you may not want to do that.
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Fishing is "fishing" why take the guess work out of an adventure.
As long as you have a computer and access to the internet, the answer to all of your ? are a click away.
As long as you have a computer and access to the internet, the answer to all of your ? are a click away.
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What you need to do is go spend some money on gas and go explore you local rivers. Rivers change a lot after runoff so what was good one year might not be good next year. While there is a basic channel for the rivers, it's the little changes that will throw you.
There is a site on river rafting or floating in Washington. But since I don't use the site I don't remember what it is called. It lists the rivers and what class they are.
It's all out there, you just have to search for it.
There is a site on river rafting or floating in Washington. But since I don't use the site I don't remember what it is called. It lists the rivers and what class they are.
It's all out there, you just have to search for it.
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Chris has a link in the content area to USGS which should shed some light on river flows. More than the flows or depths you'll also need a point of reference so you have to have been there. What does 1000cfs on the Yakima near Ellensburg mean? Once you see it and annotate it you can use the flows at various measuring points as a very useful tool. USGS also shows relation to historical flow points, shows things like extreme highs and lows and of course the graphic depiction shows if the rivers are rising to blown out, falling to fishing prime or any other combo you can come up with.
Steve's point on shuttles is a good one. Most shuttle operators know their service area very well and I've had lengthy (imagine that) conversations with some that have provided enough information to learn more of their areas and even modify float plans based on their suggestions, identification of problematic spots and such. I've been lucky to have explored a few of these places with friends and recently have become a better note taker so that I can give myself better points of reference for future trips. I've also been able to boat places with very skilled oarsmen that have shown me many things, kept me out of trouble, gotten me out of trouble I've gotten myself into and shown me many things to do and consider on the water. You can't beat being out doing it with such awesome folks, especially when seeing some stretch of river for the first time in your life.
There are currently a few guide books available that cover most of the rivers, I'm sure none are all inclusive but if your goal is to improve on what is out there you should be armed with these to use to make steps along your path. Some of the map books or guide books that I have and think are useful to me in my limited experience are: Washington River Maps and Fishing Guide (Frank Amato Publications), The Olympic Peninsula Rivers Guide: Floating and Fishing the Peninsula's Best Streams (Steve Probasco), Fly Fishing the Olympic Peninsula (Doug Rose), Steelhead Fly Fishing on the Olympic Peninsula: The Color of Winter (Doug Rose), Quiet Pool: Fly Fishing the Rivers and Stillwaters of Washington (Holmel,Shimondel), Washington River Map (google search that one to find a good overview map you can buy) and I've got a book with maps that show the sections, classification of river sections, boat launches (ramps and unimproved launches) but I can't remember the name of it. The newer one has all the points of detail with GPS coordinates, mine is older but it shows most of what I need.
Collectively, as I'm sure you know, much of what you speak of is out there. It just might be scattered in a number of places. Should you compile it all and put it in one reference it might be a huge one. If it is in print, Derek's point of these rivers being wild things is spot on, print versions will need updates, possibly more frequently than you might imagine as these rivers flow and go where they wish. The information available on the internet from reading material to conversational forums is a very good place to get small details to general overviews. The pinnacle of such forums, in my opinion, is right here. I hope I've not bored you. Best of luck with your project, let us know how it goes.
Steve's point on shuttles is a good one. Most shuttle operators know their service area very well and I've had lengthy (imagine that) conversations with some that have provided enough information to learn more of their areas and even modify float plans based on their suggestions, identification of problematic spots and such. I've been lucky to have explored a few of these places with friends and recently have become a better note taker so that I can give myself better points of reference for future trips. I've also been able to boat places with very skilled oarsmen that have shown me many things, kept me out of trouble, gotten me out of trouble I've gotten myself into and shown me many things to do and consider on the water. You can't beat being out doing it with such awesome folks, especially when seeing some stretch of river for the first time in your life.
There are currently a few guide books available that cover most of the rivers, I'm sure none are all inclusive but if your goal is to improve on what is out there you should be armed with these to use to make steps along your path. Some of the map books or guide books that I have and think are useful to me in my limited experience are: Washington River Maps and Fishing Guide (Frank Amato Publications), The Olympic Peninsula Rivers Guide: Floating and Fishing the Peninsula's Best Streams (Steve Probasco), Fly Fishing the Olympic Peninsula (Doug Rose), Steelhead Fly Fishing on the Olympic Peninsula: The Color of Winter (Doug Rose), Quiet Pool: Fly Fishing the Rivers and Stillwaters of Washington (Holmel,Shimondel), Washington River Map (google search that one to find a good overview map you can buy) and I've got a book with maps that show the sections, classification of river sections, boat launches (ramps and unimproved launches) but I can't remember the name of it. The newer one has all the points of detail with GPS coordinates, mine is older but it shows most of what I need.
Collectively, as I'm sure you know, much of what you speak of is out there. It just might be scattered in a number of places. Should you compile it all and put it in one reference it might be a huge one. If it is in print, Derek's point of these rivers being wild things is spot on, print versions will need updates, possibly more frequently than you might imagine as these rivers flow and go where they wish. The information available on the internet from reading material to conversational forums is a very good place to get small details to general overviews. The pinnacle of such forums, in my opinion, is right here. I hope I've not bored you. Best of luck with your project, let us know how it goes.
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Just found the iphone app [and yes I know not everyone is a member of the cult]. The app is called "FishHead". You just select your favorite rivers and then flip from one to the next. It shows the flow, stage , temp, and wind. Updated hourly[?]. Useful if you're on the road.
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I got mad props for Bill James and that fact that someone on this board referenced him! I think what some here will say is that the adventure is really part of the fun. I know, information is everything these days but I can't tell you how much fun most of us have had just exploring and figuring things out for ourselves. As our lives get busier we often find the need to get more information about these places because we don't always have time to explore every nook and crany that interests us (I am guilty of this myself). I think you have a very interesting idea that would be quite marketable, its just that sometimes the real value is in the experience. I'm indifferent on this one.
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Well, if blackberry doesn't pick up the pace you made have to switch over. Verizon is getting the iphone too this year. There is also an app [related to this thread] called "The Hatch 2" that has rivers from all over the US. The database is still being updated, but it gives you the hatch on a river for the month you plug in. It also will take you to a website to show you what flies are related to that hatch. Even with all of this help, I still don't catch much. Maybe I should put the phone down for a while.
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Many times information is mistaken for knowledge. The true knowledge within that information lies in the years of experience on the waters accumulating the data. Personally I might be a little disappointed if that type of information was collected in one single place. Especially in an electronic format such as a spread sheet where it could easily be mass distributed with little effort.
I believe some things you should have to go out and learn for yourself to really appreciate it and care for it as it should be. This sounds like someone posting, "I'm heading to the Yakima for the first time tomorrow and was wondering if someone could tell me where to park, which trail to walk down, what line to use, how long of a leader and what fly and size to fish". Only they want every run and hatch on every river in MT, WA, ID, & OR to be laid out for them for every month of the year.
This sounds more like a nightmare than a dream to me.
I believe some things you should have to go out and learn for yourself to really appreciate it and care for it as it should be. This sounds like someone posting, "I'm heading to the Yakima for the first time tomorrow and was wondering if someone could tell me where to park, which trail to walk down, what line to use, how long of a leader and what fly and size to fish". Only they want every run and hatch on every river in MT, WA, ID, & OR to be laid out for them for every month of the year.
This sounds more like a nightmare than a dream to me.
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Thank you, Mumbles, for a treasure trove of publications. Our thinking in posting this I must now conclude inappropriate post was to gather information to speed the quest for information. We saw a lot of threads like "Going to the xxxx this weekend, any tips?" and thought that could be reduced to a central inquiry source. Now we realize that for most of those who have commented that half the fun is in the finding out and the pure uncertainty and risk involved in the adventure. And the back and forth on this forum - the memories recalled, the opportunity to impart wisdom - so much more robust than some dry and uninspiring spreadsheet. I guess it would be like going to the moon and finding there a video describing the place - or, better yet, knowing too much, why venture out?
On the other hand, we are headed to the Grand Ronde and spent one hell of a lot of precious time trying to figure it all out. Half a day of exploration and now we think we may not be making big mistakes when we get there. No matter what our knowledge level and preparation we are certain that once we get there the overwhelming experience of the water and sun and the sky and the moon and the stars and perhaps even a few fish will completely overshadow our expectations - it always has and always will. We just did not want to drown in the "Narrows" on our way to Valhalla and thought that somewhere a central database might save us some time. Now we realize that for many the mistakes are perhaps what it is all about.
So we withdraw our post as inappropriate and naive for this forum and also apologize for the reference to Bill James, the quintessential statistician that for some took the soul out of the game of baseball (although most of the teams, including the Mariners, for better or worst, are following his lead).
As for the love of the adventure of fly fishing for trout as exhibited by almost all of those who have posted , I am reminded of the Wallace Stevens quote : "Reality is an activity of the most august imagination" and that reality should therefore not be trifled with by mere information.
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