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The miner has to follow the(state) rules in the gold and fish pamphlet. that states where when and how.
you can get them at some of the larger sporting goods stores,I've seen them at sportsman warehouse or you can have the state mail them.remember the rivers are not just for the fish,swimmers,floaters,power companies,irrigation just like the woods are not just for the. hunters, hikers, skiers, bikers photographers,loggers.it's all multi use. tight lines
 

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I love this one!
To the contrary, they offer the fish fast food service. They've seen schools of fish grouped behind the dredge to collect the plant life that is dug up and comes through the sluice.
Quite shortsighted.

Thank the "history of small miners" for situations like this. Anyone want to patent a federal parcel in designated roadless for a small price and do $100 work / year to maintain it?
 

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Having much experience at this, I suggest, perhaps, you make the major expense/time/labor investment and get out an actually do it before you make your unfounded criticisms based on what you heard or someone told you.

Dredging, done properly, enhances the fish habitat and promotes an increase in fish numbers. I know this from first hand experience.
Keep in mind, the key phrase is "done properly".
It is also can be the most strenuous, bone chilling, back breaking, no pay work you can probably do. I'd like to have a nickel for every pound of trash I've hauled out of the great outdoors left from loggers, fisherman, campers and etc.

Let the whipping commence.
 

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Yeah, So Cal is known for its massive populations of anadromous fish. Describe how it enhances fish habitat as So Cal has massive numbers of anadromous fish that have benefited from dredging. Consider yourself whipped.

Ryan
 

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Enhanced spawning gravel beds and improved food sources in the immediate area.

I don't recall mentioning dredging in So. Cal. Be it known, my experience was in the western Sierras.

Your question is based on what personal experience anywhere in California? You fish here?
What exactly do you know "first hand" about anadromous fish in the Sierras; east or west side?

Yeah, So Cal is known for its massive populations of anadromous fish. Describe how it enhances fish habitat as So Cal has massive numbers of anadromous fish that have benefited from dredging. Consider yourself whipped.

Ryan
 

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Suspend disbelief for a moment and take Mr.Walker's words as fact. How many joe six packs are going to get it "DONE PROPERLY"? Not many, I suspect! Oh, and Mr. wik, the rivers are for the fish first and foremost!
 

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Just an Old Man
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No use getting your panties in a bunch over this. The Wenatchee isn't the only river in this state that this is done in. There's regs in place someplace for all of this.
 

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I agree with Mark. I drive by this dude everyday. He really isn't making much of an impact. If you consider 1) what historical dredging was like in the western US, 2) you consider what we already do with bulldozers to modify river banks.

To me its cool to see a little throwback to the old days, it is a part of the culture and history of the west. On an industrial scale, no thanks.
 

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One is a resource that is renewable and the other is not. Why are there such concerns over mines and pther mining operations and their tendency to degrade natural environments worldwide? Because they are known to destroy aquatic environments.

Too bad about the currently occupied spawning beds that get dredged up killing that generation of anadromous fish. The last I checked this was Washington Fly Fishing not Dredgers Are Us. Why don't you start the "Go Pebble Mine Club" while you are at it.

Ryfly
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I think there are several things that bother me about this practice. First, frankly, displacing gravel through a giant shop-vac seems to cause more harm than people walking/floating/kayaking down the river. Second, there doesn't seem to be a lot of benchmarking going on, so that a fairly reasonable decision can be made whether there is any harm or foul. Third, the Wenatchee and the Peshastin (in fact almost the whole Wenatchee watershed is closed) are closed waters to fishermen, no matter what (unless a special opening is declared). Why? Because of endangered species issues. It seems to be NOAA, who regulates anadromous fish, might want to begin the benchmarking I am talking about. Last, like lemmings to the sea, once this type of thing gets publicized enough, what was one guy becomes dozens. If we are supposed to live with the Wenatchee watershed being closed, then I would think the least benign activities are the only ones we would condone on this watershed.

I am all for maintaining vibrant and healthy natural resource based economies. I think it is hypocritical to say we want local but don't cut down trees for paper in my "neck of the woods." I am third generation "western rancher" and respect and enjoy the history of our region. But I also think there is a time and place for cattle to graze, trees to be cut, and mining to be done. Sucking up gravel on a river with vast and extensive endangered species issues is not the time nor the place.
 

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Steve Sullivan
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Having much experience at this, I suggest, perhaps, you make the major expense/time/labor investment and get out an actually do it before you make your unfounded criticisms based on what you heard or someone told you.

Dredging, done properly, enhances the fish habitat and promotes an increase in fish numbers. I know this from first hand experience.
Keep in mind, the key phrase is "done properly".
It is also can be the most strenuous, bone chilling, back breaking, no pay work you can probably do. I'd like to have a nickel for every pound of trash I've hauled out of the great outdoors left from loggers, fisherman, campers and etc.

Let the whipping commence.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No thanks, you would probably get off on it.
 

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It would seem to me that the natural event of uncontrolable yearly flooding and high water levels would displace a lot more river gravel/ bars/benches & banks than a group of "regulated" guys with "giant shop vacs".

Remember, we are not speaking of the days of "yore" when thousands of unregulated hydraulic monitors and floating barges were removing 26 million cubic yards of river bed or bank. This was just pure, unadulterated greed. Thank God it was stopped and a pity it wasn't stopped sooner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's true, it's not the "real bad old days." But the "natural" or as "natural" as possible movement of sediment is vastly different than huge shop-vacs sucking up gravel and anything else. Anadromous fish have adapted to the movements caused by river flow, including flooding, but sure as heck haven't adapted to shop vacs in their habitat.

And again, I want to remind everyone, this river and essentially the whole watershed are closed waters. There are endangered species in these waters.
 

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When I was running a 6 '' dredge, the fish (almost exclusively trout) would congregate very near the business end of the suction nozzle and dart in to grab helgramites, etc. when the overburden was being removed. Every so often, one would venture a bit too close and take an "E" ticket ride up the hose and out the sluice box. They would instantly return to their position in the school with no evidence of being worse for wear. They seemed quite adaptable to what was happening. It was amazing to the witness the growth of these fish over a daily basis in period of 3 months.
I never saw an injured, dying, or dead fish in three years; only extremely fat ones.

Most of the opinions expressed are not based on actual personal experiences regarding "sport prospecting", but more on speculation and supposition by those that haven't.
Based on a good deal of posts cited here, it DOES seem to me that there IS a good deal of damage done by people walking/floating/kayaking/fishing just based on the huge amount of trash, human waste, floating garbage, etc . present in the ecosystem.
My point is, it's not expressly what is being done, but more regarding the kind of individuals doing it.
Damn too few are "stewards" of their surroundings AND, unforunately it's getting worse.
 
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