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I saw an article the other day in a Seattle food mag, about this company raising coho in fresh water tanks, on land. The companies name is Aqua seed, they have been around for a long time, providing eggs for the industry. They have a farm around Rochester where they raise coho in tanks, the water is filtered many time and recycled, as well as the waste. Monterey Bay Aquarium's Seafood Watch has given them thier "Super Green" status. They sold around 200,000 lbs last year, But mostly in BC.

I've benn saying this for a long time, if they want to farm fish, they should do just that, on a farm, not in our oceans!!

Thought you might find it interesting
Forgot to mention the name of the product: Sweet Spring
 

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NFR-FARMED SALMON

I hope this is the wave of the future.

On an interesting side note I read an article the other day about a company that genetically modified atlantic salmon by introducing a growth gene from Chinook salmon. Apparently they reach market size in 1/2 the time. The company says they will grow all these GM fish on land to prevent contamination with wild stocks. My only beef with it is that the company is resisting marking the packaging with a GM label. If you want to make 'franken-fish' that is fine, this is america, but at least tell me what I am buying so I can decide for myself if I want to eat it.

Sorry for the digression. I hope all open-net salmon farms transition into closed containment.
 

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NFR-FARMED SALMON

Thanks for sharing Chris. "15 generations of selective breeding", so almost like a "survival of the fittest" mixed with Utopia in the gene pool. I can see how that would definitely aid in helping reduce any stained crossbreeding of hatchery and natives. Do you think such a refined fish could be even more healthy and pure than a native with lesser genes? A friend and avid fisherman friend visited the Quinault national hatchery. He said the program use is to pick a select number of "Prime" fish for the eggs and sperm to ensure the strongest hatchlings as possible. I don't know if that is picked from hatchery fish or from natives. Nevertheless, the program Aquaseed is running sounds like a good one. Farmed market fish, 100% containment. I wonder how fatty the fish get from not going to sea and getting to move freely.

http://www.aquaseed.com/index.html
 

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NFR-FARMED SALMON

Evidently, thier pen are big and uncrowded, so the fish can swim freely. they use no anti biotics and feed with a large % of vegetable to reduce the impacts on wild feed ie- menhaden- herring and anchovies.
 

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NFR-FARMED SALMON

Chris,

Taking aquaculture out of the ocean is critical but raising them in freshwater tanks is likely the lesser of two evils instead of a solution. Part of the problem is that salmon farming by nature is not sustainable. If they have to feed these "Coho" more pounds of fish then we get back, then we're still screwed. Also, are Coho raised in fresh water tanks really Coho? There's going to be even more confusion on a mass level when "Freshwater Farmed Raised Coho" hits the market, potentially diluting the real value of wild fish and the true cost of losing them in the eyes of the uneducated masses. My feeling is that farming is for potatoes, not salmon.

Dylan
 

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NFR-FARMED SALMON

Ryan, it has to make one wonder the usage stability of a new fish made from a milkshake. Atlantic King salmon....hmmmm. What I mean by stability is the after effects when the product is ingested and how it will effect all that use it. We [mankind] has made a lot bad choices mixing products for efficiency "today", but having adverse effects for tomorrow. This sounds like a good one though. Growing "feed" fish faster, feed more countries.

Here's a video on that coho farm:

http://www.sweetspringsalmon.com/
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
NFR-FARMED SALMON

Chris,

Taking aquaculture out of the ocean is critical but raising them in freshwater tanks is likely the lesser of two evils instead of a solution. Part of the problem is that salmon farming by nature is not sustainable. If they have to feed these "Coho" more pounds of fish then we get back, then we're still screwed. Also, are Coho raised in fresh water tanks really Coho? There's going to be even more confusion on a mass level when "Freshwater Farmed Raised Coho" hits the market, potentially diluting the real value of wild fish and the true cost of losing them in the eyes of the uneducated masses. My feeling is that farming is for potatoes, not salmon.

Dylan
I agree Doug, whole heartedly, but I think it's a step in the right direction. Open water net pens are industrial polluters and should be outlawed, at lest if we can get them on the beach, that's a start!
 

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Chris,

Taking aquaculture out of the ocean is critical but raising them in freshwater tanks is likely the lesser of two evils instead of a solution. Part of the problem is that salmon farming by nature is not sustainable. If they have to feed these "Coho" more pounds of fish then we get back, then we're still screwed. Also, are Coho raised in fresh water tanks really Coho? There's going to be even more confusion on a mass level when "Freshwater Farmed Raised Coho" hits the market, potentially diluting the real value of wild fish and the true cost of losing them in the eyes of the uneducated masses. My feeling is that farming is for potatoes, not salmon.

Dylan
I disagree whole heartedly. Farming is for any natural resource we humans decide to consume on a scale greater than can be sustained by wild production. Fish is just one of the last resources to reach the point where it is necessary because it was such an abundant resource to begin with - compared to wild potatoes, rice, wheat, pigs, cows, chickens, trees, you get the picture..

And, we are already far past the point of consuming more seafood than the wild can produce. Production from wild capture fisheries leveled off more than a decade ago and 'farmed' seafood, raised specifically for human consumption, under varying levels of control and regulation, is currently supplying nearly half of the global demand for seafood. As Americans we import more than 75% of our seafood. We either need to eat less seafood (probably a pretty good idea, unless we replace the protein with less healthy, less sustainable meats - i.e. any other meat), or we need to find a way to produce more of our own seafood as safely and sustainable as possible.

You say cultured fish anywhere is not the solution. What is the solution? Do you really think that wild stocks can support the future demand for seafood? Do you think it could support the current demand? Of course there are environmental impacts of fish farming. All agriculture has impacts. Best practices need to be determined, put into place, and supported by the consumer. We can't go back to the hunter gatherer approach for fish any more than we can for crops and other meats. It would be an environmental disaster.

Yes, fish eat fish, but their feed conversion ratio in captivity is better than fish in the wild, and miles better than any other meat we eat. There is a lot of research into fish meal replacements from wild fish processing byproducts, land based plants or, even better, cultured algae. I don't know anything specifically about the the technology in the article above, but it sounds like a company that is thinking ahead, trying to do the right thing, and hoping consumers will support them. My only issue with it is that it sounds like their model is not capable of producing nearly enough to make any real difference, but.. its a start. There are also US based trout, catfish, tilapia and hybrid striped bass farming industries that are fairly well regulated and producing cultured seafood with minimal environmental impacts. They should absolutely be supported, especially by people who care about what remains of the wild fisheries. The idea that wild seafood is "green" seafood is a fallacy. Their are a some wild stocks left that can support limited harvest. That stuff should be priced at a premium and all the other seafood for the masses, will have to be farmed. Again, a large portion of it already is - it just needs to be done better.

Eric
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey Herl, I knew you'd jump in, hows the right coast treatin, ya? You made some valid points about seafood consumption.As far as wild fish not being green, I don't agree, there is no carbon foot print from that fish until capture, were a farmed fish has impact egg to plate. There are healthy fisheries that are sustainable( Crab, halibut, black cod and some fo the Alaska salmon fisheries). I realize that is a small % of the world production, but if they are managed well and the habitat is protected the ca be sustained.
 

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I'm with Eric[Herl] on this one. Our existence on this planet ha only done damage on the overall. Will this process help restore our lost fisheries? Probably not directly, because people that fish to eat will continue to do so, but that is what the hatchery fish are for right? Will this help reduce the commercial and native american fishing for market, quite possibly. Perhaps not immediately, but more and more people seem to be getting educated in "green" practices. What impact will that have on the fishing industry? HUGE! but let's get real here, the fishing industry has suffered for near two decades from over harvesting. Is it really a surprise to see a further decline? This is a start, a precedent to what could aid in rebuilding what has been lost. Just my opinion though.
 

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there is no carbon foot print from that fish until capture
(Somewhat seriously, somewhat sarcastically) Ummm....do fish somehow, miraculously, not generate CO2? I thought everything in the animal kingdom generated carbon...foot print size, well that's another issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I undestand what you are saying Mike, and I agree there has been over harvest in some cases, but you can't lay the blame completely at thier feet. There are many causes for the decline in native salmon runs( Logging, farming, minning, dikes and channelization, urbanization, trapping beavers and polution). To think that if we just stop commercial fish and they'll come back is not realistic.
 

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Hey Herl, I knew you'd jump in, hows the right coast treatin, ya? You made some valid points about seafood consumption.As far as wild fish not being green, I don't agree, there is no carbon foot print from that fish until capture, were a farmed fish has impact egg to plate. There are healthy fisheries that are sustainable( Crab, halibut, black cod and some fo the Alaska salmon fisheries). I realize that is a small % of the world production, but if they are managed well and the habitat is protected the ca be sustained.
I just can't help myself when folks start bashing farmed fish, or singing the praises of wild harvest..;) The right coast is rough - traffic and people all day long..

I fully agree that it is possible to harvest a limited quantity of wild fish in a sustainable manner. Regulating the harvest seems to be a very difficult trick. It has clearly failed in CA, then OR, now WA. I fully expect BC and AK to be next. And then a lot of the AK "wild" salmon harvest is hatchery produced fish, captured with non-selective methods at the expense of any other species running in that river at the same time, basically turning the wild rivers into production facilities. It all has it's place, but wild harvest is not "the" green alternative to farmed fish b/c there is no alternative, it's not one or the other - neither wild, nor farmed can provide enough fish for today's demand. As demand increases in the future, I would rather see it met using the best possible farming techniques than by increasing wild capture.

I undestand what you are saying Mike, and I agree there has been over harvest in some cases, but you can't lay the blame completely at thier feet. There are many causes for the decline in native salmon runs( Logging, farming, minning, dikes and channelization, urbanization, trapping beavers and polution). To think that if we just stop commercial fish and they'll come back is not realistic.
We can't blame it all on commercial fishing and non selective netting, but I believe it is the #1 issue. The fish are very resilient, and if we don't hold them down for so long that the ecology of the system changes, they will bounce back if given the a chance. Look at the many examples from around the country: stripers on the east coast, redfish in the south.. these places have far more degraded environments than the PNW, but as soon as the commercial harvest was stopped and the nets were pulled, the fish roared back. To the point that the commercial fishermen begged to start fishing again.. and the populations suffered.. and so it goes, back and forth. The commercial fishing lifestyle/lobby has a lot of sway in this country. I'm not sure why it gets a free pass. It is simply individuals using a public resource for personal gain.

For the anadromous fisheries of the PNW, if the commercial industry can be convinced or forced to leave an adequate # of fish in the river, I think it would go a very long way toward restoring the fishery. The fish themselves will improve the habitat by spawning, and dying and fertilizing the river, like they are supposed to, for the benefit of the next generation.

Now I'm just rambling..
Eric
 

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You say cultured fish anywhere is not the solution. What is the solution? Do you really think that wild stocks can support the future demand for seafood? Do you think it could support the current demand?
Actually I didn't say that. I said that my feeling is that farming is for potatoes not salmon. Clearly tillapia, catfish, trout, carp, etc... is a different beast altogether and I'm sure those practices have their challenges and successes as well. I wish I had the solution, but clearly I do not.
 

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There are many causes for the decline in native salmon runs( Logging, farming, minning, dikes and channelization, urbanization, trapping beavers and polution).
I didnt think my enjoyment of Beaver was having any affect on Salmon. Ha Ha.

Contained fish tanks are much better than open net pens. I still wont eat them myself, but it is the way that the aquaculture industry should be regulated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yes Josh, do NOT disturb the beaver, When cornered they can be quite viscious!
 

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Hi Dylan, I was referring to this statement:

Taking aquaculture out of the ocean is critical but raising them in freshwater tanks is likely the lesser of two evils instead of a solution.
My apologies if I misunderstood it or mis-characterized your statement. I am not trying to single you out by any means. Anti fish farm sentiments seem pretty prevalent.. Like I mentioned before, I just can't help saying something. The popular idea that we should resist the proliferation of fish farming and promote consumption of wild fish seems extremely shortsighted given the state of our wild fisheries and the continual increase in demand. I believe the focus should be on improving culture techniques. The farm posted in this thread seems like a great example.

Eric
 

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So is this going to end up like all the other
mega farm crap (chickens, eggs, beef, etc)
with outbreaks of ecoli and all your other favorite
disgusting things. It sounds more and more like
Soylent Green is closer to reality.

DK
 

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i wouldn't be too scared of E-Coli from the fish, but who knows what happens at some of these processing plants. In regards to my comments on commercial fishing, I don't feel they are the only cause, just the largest one. People get lung cancer all the time from fumes, exhausts, airborne carcinogens around refineries, bla, bla.....but the largest contributor of course are cigarettes. So they did a class action smack down of 35 billion dollars on them. Do I suggest the same for commercial fishing? No, but somethings got to give. I worked with a large number of commercial fisherman up in Anacortes years ago. Many of them told me they were offered a government grant to not fish. The grant basically would send them back to school to learn whatever in order to change occupations. Is that program even still available? I don't believe in any hard impacts on any market as the results tend to be cause a very bad ripple. So with the decline of natives in our anadromous populations, is the thought of "impending doom" not a factor to those in control? Even if the populations should sustain, they are nothing near what was once natural. Can we still get that back?
 
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