[Wes Telyea]

When fishing a floating line are their certain types of flies one is suppose to use? For example I would guess that when you are fishing a floating line you probably wouldnt be throwing intruders or big leech patterns, instead you would want to throw smaller GBS type of flies. And, when you want to fish intruders and big leeches you would use a sinking head. Is that correct?

 

[TomB]

what you just stated is probably the custom that the majority of anglers follow. that may be because casting heavy flies and getting them to turn over is generally easier with a sinktip. there is no other reason one can't fish them on a floating line. I personally enjoy fishing larger leach-style flies on a floating line. Well designed and tied leaders will aid in turning them over. At the suggestion of a friend, i began tying my leaders from maxima chameleon a few years ago, starting with either 30 or 40 lb butt, and tapering down to my desired tippet class, which for large flies shouldn't be under 10 lbs. as a rule of thumb for spey work, a leader the the length of the rod is good. The long leader will help your anchor with a floating line.

 

[Chris Johnson]

Here's a link to a page with leader formulas from Maxima.

www.flyfishusa.com/leaders/maxima.html

 

[Andrew Lawrence]

I am not an expert, so someone please correct me if I happen to be totally off target on this one. However, if I was going to attempt to cast very large and heavy flies using a floating line, a long leader, and a two hand rod, I would use a skagit head (compact Skagit as far as my own set up is concerned) with a MOW 10 foot floating tip.

 

[SpeySpaz]

You can cast some big-ass flies on a floating line. True. 3/0 AJs and bigger, long bunnies.
Your line system has to be up to the task, however. A bigger-diameter line tip, of .045-.050+, a thick but supple leader butt , and tippet that can transfer that energy, say 12-15# Maxima Ultragreen, all help to make that happen. TomB has that totally nailed. Leader construction is critical in the big-fly game. Being good at casting of course helps too...

The longbelly aficionados are saying hell yeah right now--

...But, there's more than one way to skin a cat, or for that matter, pitch a half-chicken. A heavy scandi outfit, various skagit setups with and without floating tips, etc.
Last winter I went through a little phase, fishing 4" leadeye bunnies off a 420 compact scandi on my 7wt, and spanked some fish flesh. It can definitely be done.

For a beginning caster I wouldn't recommend any of it. Moderate sized flies catch buttloads of steelhead and you can do it without straining anything important while casting. Sparser patterns on hooks up to 2 are more than enough, this whole "big fly" thing is, well, a somewhat useful fad with an air of testosterone about it...

 

[Chris Johnson]

Well stated Spaz, guys are catchin' steelhead on 6mm beads, so you don't need half a rabbit to catch one.

 

[Tracy Lauricella]

I feel better about the articulated conehead bunny leech I lost today. Back to the size 6 Green Butt skunk and similar flies.

 

[3356]

Wes,

Keep in mind that the steelhead fly fishing pioneers in Northern CA and Southern OR back in the late 1800's, and the folks who pioneered steelhead fly fishing in the rest of OR, Southwest WA, Puget Sound, and the Olympic Peninsula considered flies of #1 or 2 to be rather large. My how fly size fashion has changed since the 1970's.

As has been mentioned by others, fly size is not dictated by the use of sinking tips or floating tips, it is determined by the weight and diameter of the line. In other words, you wouldn't fish and cast #3/0 flies on a 6 weight spey rod with a floating line, by the same token, you would probably not fish a #8 or #10 SPADE on an 11 wt long belly line and matching rod. Nope, you'd match the rod and line weight to the size fly and size of fish you are likely to catch.

That said, in general, larger wets are fished on sinking tips with Skagit lines, or larger size Scandi, short-belly, mid-belly, or long-belly lines. And in general, small wets, dries, and skated flies are fished on floating lines or tips of light to moderate line wts.

 

[bye]

what you just stated is probably the custom that the majority of anglers follow. that may be because casting heavy flies and getting them to turn over is generally easier with a sinktip. there is no other reason one can't fish them on a floating line. I personally enjoy fishing larger leach-style flies on a floating line. Well designed and tied leaders will aid in turning them over. At the suggestion of a friend, i began tying my leaders from maxima chameleon a few years ago, starting with either 30 or 40 lb butt, and tapering down to my desired tippet class, which for large flies shouldn't be under 10 lbs. as a rule of thumb for spey work, a leader the the length of the rod is good. The long leader will help your anchor with a floating line.

Hey Tom, do you mind sharing an approximate formula on your taper, assuming the leader is generally as long as the rod? I've played around with a bunch of ultragreen combinations, but have never really hit the magic bullet. Best lead eye leader I ever had was tied on for me by a buddy, and I remember thinking it was way different than what I had been doing. Unfortunately, I can't remember how he did the first half (from the fly line).

I've been thinking about trying a combination of chameleon and ultragreen, it seems like chameleon would be better for the butt section. I really like ultragreen for a leader, although I may have hooked a fish or two on chameleon leaders back in the gear fishing days.

 

[TomB]

bconrad,

Sure. No prob. First, re: chameleon vs. ultragreen, I like chameleon for its stiffness and abrasion resistence (also, if it gets abraided, it is easy to see because it gets a white crusty look on the brown exterior). I wouldn't suggest mixing the two line types because the difference in stiffness can cause knot breaks. I have never found the color of the chameleon to be problem. I use tip pieces in 8lb virtually all summer, even with small (size 8) hairwings tied low water style. If I feel the fish are particularly spooky, I go to 6lb, but I think it is more for me than for the fish. As far as the formula goes, it varies a bit depending on the length of the rod, the weight of the line, and the size of intended flies.

In general 42- 48" of your stiffest butt section (40lb for heavier speyrods, or large flies, and 30lb for lighter speyrods and smaller flies, 25lb for smaller single handers), followed by 28-30" of your second butt section (30lb for heavy, 25 for lighter, 20 for single hander) ,and then 6-10" sections of each consecutive line class down (25, 20, 15,12, 10, etc.) then the last section (whatever lb test you choose to end with, should be 24-36". The reason I gave ranges for the lengths is to allow for flexibility so that the total length is equal to or greater than the rod length...calculate the leader length you are shooting for, the number of sections you will be using, and then adjust the lengths of the sections withing the specified ranges to achieve the desired total length. It is important NOT to skip ANY line classes as this will reduce the efficient transfer of energy. Also, I use only blood knots because they enhance the stiffness as well, and create a smooth, streamlined look.

Good luck.
Tom

 

[Salmo_g]

Tom,

After measuring Maxima with my micrometer, I dropped 12# from the list because both 12 and 15# measured 0.015", or both were always within 0.001" of each other. I think the energy transfer is fine dropping from 15# down to 10#. I've been a Maxima fan for 36 years, but they are always way off from the labeled line diameter and pound test, which is probably why people think it is so strong - it is.

Sg

 

[bye]

Thanks Tom. Appreciate it.

 

[Wes Telyea]

Thanks for all the replies fellas. Lots to think about and more importantly lots of stuff and ideas to go and test on the water