Yeah, there is a dispute going on between NMFS and EPA over the permitting of several herbicides that are sprayed on vegetation near streams. I can't remember any details, but you can probably Google it.

Sg

 

I don't like it. Whatever the science says, I don't like hunting an area and seeing black, dead leaves all over. Nor do I like seeing signs saying to stay out because an area is getting sprayed. The signs say what's being sprayed and it's all variations of Roundup.

 

I have a little experience with this subject and feel compelled to chime in. I myself was a silvicultural forester for a while and have used pesticides on timberlands. First, I wouldn't doubt your story about how things are handled on power line rights-of-way. The simple answer is that they fall under federal juristiction and from my experience is that they're attitude is that they do what they want. Second, the herbicides of today are much less environmentally harmful, in that, have much shorter half-lifes (some less than 24 hours), much less apt to transport themselves from where they are sprayed, and go through much more stringent testing before being released into the market. Third, there are strict laws governing the application of herbicides on timberlands designed to keep the herbicides out of water and other sentitive areas (i.e. buffer, weather restrictions, timing). The herbicides used in timberlands are much more benign than the herbicides used in agriculture.

 

I have a little experience with this subject and feel compelled to chime in. I myself was a silvicultural forester for a while and have used pesticides on timberlands. ......... The herbicides used in timberlands are much more benign than the herbicides used in agriculture.

I have had several friends that were professional Foresters and also owned orchards and farmlands.

I raised the issue of sprays and other environmental practices on forest lands versus agricultural lands. ALL said there is no comparison...... the most telling comment was "IF I did the same practices on my forest land that is standard operating procedures in orchards I would be thrown in jail".

Have you ever seen a skull and crossbones, no trespassing sign on forest land? There is a reason why the state requires that posting on farmlands that have been sprayed.

 

I've wondered about this too. My local environs involve a road along a river and the DOT &/or county road dept. sprays plenty of herbicide along the roads. Have had a number of conversations with life-time locals around here and am told the upland game birds (quail, grouse, chucker) that used to be plentiful are few and far between today. All these birds have gizzards demanding access to small stones...small stones are plentiful on the edges of roads.

Maybe there's a connection?

 

What is it exactly that is was being sprayed? Do you know the name of the chemicals?

 

Yeah, what is being sprayed. Glyphosate (main ingredient of Roundup) kills grasses and nearly everything deciduous that doesn't have a waxy coating on the leaves. Oversprayed (there is always "overspray") glyphosate doesn't move much in the soil, but binds to it and is slowly broken down by soil bacteria over a period of up to two years.
Crossbow is a commercial name for another herbicide that is used often, but it has ingredients other than glyphosate, and kills most deciduous plants but not grasses, so its the herbicide of choice to kill off underbrush and broadleaf weeds, including thistles, and still leave the grass growing.
There's a whole bunch of others that are used. Hexazinone is a pre-emergent that is sprayed once everything is killed off, and if my memory serves me well, I recall that it prevents new growth of unwanted deciduous "weeds" in the Spring.
Atrazine and 2,4-d are still used. Can you even pronounce triclopyr (I think that's one of the chemicals in Crossbow) or clopyryalid?:beathead::beathead::beathead:

 

These types of reports are depressing, the chemicals sprayed will no doubt retain actvity for a while and run off with rain can mess up even algae in the streams or as Klickrolf points out, other wild life just diminishes. Bad winters/Springs or herbicides? They certainly don't help. I think Haig Brown bemoaned the spraying of BC forests with DDT to prevent beetle infestations that destroyed all of the invertebrates in the streams and rivers = the fish populations bombed. I vote for goats to control the veg; their cheese is tasty and good for you, their meat is tasty and good for you, hunters could pay to whack them and they really do a number on brush vegetation. I'd wager they'd eat scrub over conifers given the choice (which they'd have).

Dave

 

On a related note, I was on the tree farm last spring and came across a huge area that was being treated with "Silivigrow". Had to be 100 acres coated in a 1/2 inch film of sh*t and chemicals. It was on a plateau just above the NF Tolt, where I'm sure much of it ended up. It was all King County equipment at the site.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=SilviGrow

 

Wow Vladimir, those are some pretty outrageous claims about orchardists. It sounds like you have been out of the game for a while because it is definitely not like that anymore. I work in the agrichem industry and it is very tightly regulated, now more than ever with export/import MRL standards for other countries (Canada, Mexico, Taiwan, EU). There are ways to check fruit for the ppm of an active ingredient and if that AI is found on the fruit then it is banned for export. There are also safe growing standards being implemented by the people who actually buy and sell the fruit like Global GAP and LIVE.
As far as what is being sprayed on the forests; if it really is Glyphosate then yes technically it can kill just about anything that is green but it is all about concentration. I have sprayed weeds in the cool spring that barely slow down with glyphosate but that is at a 1.5% solution. Also, Glyphosate is not active in the soil.
I too have heard the old stories about chemical violations in the past, my father was an apple grower since the 70's. By the way, anyone who sprays 4 times the legal rate of Azenphos-Methyl (Guthion) on an orchard for one is a moron and number two should lose their license.

 

There's morons who use higher than recommended concentrations on purpose, and then there's people with good intentions who make mistakes when mixing the stuff. I'm sure that the pros in the business think they know what they are doing, but probably downplay the potential hazards in their own mind. This can lead to lax management and potential accidents.

Then there's the private homeowner with no training, applying chemicals he picked up at the hardware store. I am worried more about the effects of all these amateur homeowners, who might not even read the directions on the label, blithely spraying chemicals all over their own property, than I am about the commercial spraying. The combined run off from all that urban and suburban homeowner spraying going into storm drains constitutes one of the bigger sources of non-point pollution going into Puget Sound.

We are addicted to the use of chemicals, since it is so easy!