Washington Fly Fishing Forum banner
1 - 20 of 54 Posts

·
Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working
Joined
·
1,860 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Obama Administration is proposing to reduce the camping discount granted to Seniors and Disabled persons from 50% to 10%. This federal program has been in effect for almost 50 years!!

Almost all Forest Service campgrounds in the northwest are under concessionaire management.

The comment period is closes Feb. 1, 2010. Fees will start going up this spring and summer.

Here is the link to the Forest Service write-up:

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/E9-28744.htm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,116 Posts
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

I am headed to D.C. on the next flight.

We will meet behind the Lincoln Memorial to plan our protest.

See you there!
 

·
Long Lost Member
Joined
·
20,209 Posts
Interesting and disappointing info. It seems I have seen a shift towards sticking it to the older generations. I don't like it, but I agree with alpinetrout, making the younger folks pay much more would likely cause a drop in usage and a correlating drop in $$. Anyone heard any good news today?
 

·
Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working
Joined
·
1,860 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
From the nofee coalition. Explanation of why the administration proposed the fee increase.

Under current policy, concessioners are required to honor Senior and Access passes for campground fees under the same terms as if the Forest Service operated the facility directly, meaning that a 50% discount must be offered. Most highly-developed campgrounds are now concessioner-run.

As the concessioner program has expanded over the past thirty years, it has moved away from a small mom-and-pop business model to one dominated by a few large corporations. According to the published notice, those firms brought five specific complaints to the Forest Service: 1) the REA does not require the 50% discount, only Forest Service policy does; 2) the discount is too steep; 3) the 50% discount is non-negotiable and can't be used as a "marketing tool to encourage off-peak use"; 4) as the baby-boomer generation ages, too many people are becoming eligible for the discount; and 5) prices to other campers must be increased to cover the discounts given to lifetime passholders.

The bottom line is, it's hurting their bottom lines.

The move is possible only because of changes in the laws that authorize recreation fees on public lands. Until 2005 such fees were governed by the Land and Water Conservation Fund Act of 1965. That law established the Golden Age and Golden Access passes, entitling the holder to lifetime free entry to National Parks and giving a 50% discount on federal camping fees. In 2005 a new law called the Recreation Enhancement Act (REA) took effect, replacing the previous authority. Under REA, lifetime passes are still offered but the 50% camping discount is no longer required. The Forest Service had, until now, continued the discount as a matter of policy and had required concessioners to do so as a condition of their operating permits.

The REA specifies that pre-existing holders of Golden Age and Golden Access passes can continue to use them in accordance with the terms they were issued under "to the extent practicable." That means they should be grandfathered-in for the 50% discount as long as the pass is not lost or stolen. But when the new REA-authorized Senior and Access passes became available in 2007, Golden passholders were encouraged to exchange their old paper pass for one of the new plastic ones, and according to the Forest Service many did. Now the Forest Service is claiming that keeping track of different discounts for Golden passholders than REA passholders is "not practicable."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,116 Posts
It seems I have seen a shift towards sticking it to the older generations.
Every generation gets "stuck" with something.

I am currently trying to find a job that doesn't pay minimum wage and has bennies. For a guy in his 20s, that is impossible. At least you older chaps could find work back in your day. I will probably be poorish my entire life. I have no idea how I could raise a family.

Things are getting grim for my life plans, the last thing I am worried about are camping fees. I won't be camping.

My first post was total sarcasm. With all the shit going on in the world today, the fact that seniors might have to pay nearly as much to camp as me doesn't exactly get me upset.

Whining about a discount that isn't a big enough discount................"Staring a gift horse in the mouth".

This is totally off topic but I had to vent. I feel like the USA is eating its children.
 

·
Ignored Member
Joined
·
12,111 Posts
saaaaahhhhhh the generation of entitlement. When I wanted to work I went out and did it. I did whatever was available many times no matter what the rate of pay was because I was hungry and needed to make some money to eat. Are you hungry yet Jason? When you get there let me know and I will give you a job hand cleaning my septic system and I will provide free training because I know how it is done from one of the great paying jobs I had in the past. Next time we fish together I will tell you about some the other great paying jobs with bennies I have had in my life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,184 Posts
Sweet Jesus! First time I found 'I was eligible' for the Golden E is/was a 'say what?' Coming into a BLM visitor center in eastern Oregon. Price to enter, about 5 bucks. 'Nice lady asks is there anyone (me or the wife) over 62?' 'Well, yes of us are.' 'Well for $10.00 I can issue a Golden Eagle Passport that will greatly reduce your cost at any BLM (and others) facilities.'

'Do you take cash?'

Best $10.00 I've ever spent!!!!:ray1:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
I don't have a problem with the increase. A good many seniors have the means and the time to enjoy the outdoors at either price. The families with kids should be provided the incentive. This will provide future campers/fishers/outdoors people, we need to get them out now.

I am a scout leader and we took the boys out for an over night camp out in Sept. With the exception of one young couple, everyone was what I would consider "senior" camped up in their significant motor lodges. The scouts were the only kids, as we continue to urbanize and user days continue to decline the money will drop out and these sites will no longer be funded. BTW, we paid $27 for the site and $10 for each additional car ($20), $47 to sleep in our tents for one night.

Now the parks pass for me (non senior) is annual and is $80, the senior pass is $10 for a life time. Does that sound right? Take a look at WS Ferries, a senior pays $3.45 a 6 year old pays $5.55. An multi (10) trip pass for a senior is good for 1 year, for anyone else 90 days. Things have gotten a little escew.

I had a retired neighbor who told me, "this is all backwards", I've had 45 years of working to save money, pay off my house, buy my cars, and learn to save. Give the people with expenses, kids, mortgages, school loans etc the discount.

Let's encourage people to become active, tax fast food (because we all pay with health care) for a start. I read last year the US spent $90B on cancer care and research, last year we spend $147B on obesity. The "generation of entitlement" as Kerry put is not what I would call it, but I might change my mind. Yeah, time to move, are there steelhead in the southern hemisphere?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,116 Posts
saaaaahhhhhh the generation of entitlement. When I wanted to work I went out and did it. I did whatever was available many times no matter what the rate of pay was because I was hungry and needed to make some money to eat. Are you hungry yet Jason? When you get there let me know and I will give you a job hand cleaning my septic system and I will provide free training because I know how it is done from one of the great paying jobs I had in the past. Next time we fish together I will tell you about some the other great paying jobs with bennies I have had in my life.
Nope, not hungry yet. I am thankful, just a bit concerned with the world.

Sounds good. I would love to go fishing sometime.
 

·
Long Lost Member
Joined
·
20,209 Posts
Seriously? Older generations? I seem to recall reading about this thing called "deficit spending" the other day. I'm gonna go look it up.
The experiences I have seen have led me to this personal opinion. They are based primarily on military life spanning 20 years. You are free to disagree. I do not believe the average 60 to 70 year old guy really is any more responsible for "deficit spending" than you or I, at whatever our age. I belive fewer of the older generation's members lived on credit as much as many of the younger generations do now. I could be wrong, I often am.

Now back to the pass prices, I'm not a big fan of the price increase. I think it sucks that a benefit offered to disabled or senior citizens is being changed to increase their fees. I think it sucks, does not make it a fact, just makes it my opinion on the subject matter brought up by the original poster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
407 Posts
10% off for seniors is very reasonable; 50% is not. If it were up to me, I would double-triple the cost for some forest service facilities as a means of funding maintenance; especially in Alaska where cabins go for $25-35 /day even in prime steelhead locations at the peak of the run.
 

·
Still DoubleUgly
Joined
·
278 Posts
If your discount was 50% before and now it's 10%, you're not paying double. You're paying 10% less than everyone else. Just sayin'.
 

·
Ignored Member
Joined
·
12,111 Posts
The "generation of entitlement" as Kerry put is not what I would call it, but I might change my mind. Yeah, time to move, are there steelhead in the southern hemisphere?
I don't know if there is steelhead in the SH. If you find some let me know and I will follow.

My parents said that about my generation and their parents likely said it about theirs so I guess now it is my turn to say it about the next generation. A priviledge, as we get older, that they can't charge us for. So far they haven't figured out how to tax us on our opinions; I don't think.
 
1 - 20 of 54 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top