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One day he's going to feel pretty foolish, having cashed out $4 million worth of bitcoin for that Jag.
I felt foolish. I cashed out when my investment doubled, ( it was somewhere close to dbl.)

I don't think a bitcoin will reach 1 million.
100,000......maybe?
 

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This thread is luscious, I never saw it before. Some blowhard prognostications not aging well. Dustin tried to offer a little insight and got shouted down, meanwhile Evan's vechain is up something like 16X since 8/2018 and somehow did not turn out to be a pump and dump benefiting a handful of scammers who took the money and ran. I still feel every person should read Plato's Apology, in which Socrates deftly points out that being an expert in one thing does not make you an expert in anything else, let alone everything else.
 

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This thread is luscious, I never saw it before. Some blowhard prognostications not aging well. Dustin tried to offer a little insight and got shouted down, meanwhile Evan's vechain is up something like 16X since 8/2018 and somehow did not turn out to be a pump and dump benefiting a handful of scammers who took the money and ran. I still feel every person should read Plato's Apology, in which Socrates deftly points out that being an expert in one thing does not make you an expert in anything else, let alone everything else.
I'm no expert in bitcoin that's for certain. I guess I'm just a hard goods, hard money kinda guy. Maybe my views are antiquated. Maybe I'm wrong? I just look at history and see these things often don't turn out well save for a few. Then again diamonds have prevailed as valuable under false economy. I guess I just don't like the idea of a bunch of power being used to produce fuck all. I further hate the idea of a bunch of storage for food being converted into a "mine" that produces fuck all. Can you be pro bitcoin and environmentally conscious? My congratulations to anyone winning at this. Perhaps you are smarter than I am. And I truly hope everyone here makes a killing with it. My feelings on bitcoin do not translate into wishes of bad fortune for anyone.
 

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I'm no expert in bitcoin that's for certain. I guess I'm just a hard goods, hard money kinda guy. Maybe my views are antiquated. Maybe I'm wrong? I just look at history and see these things often don't turn out well save for a few. Then again diamonds have prevailed as valuable under false economy. I guess I just don't like the idea of a bunch of power being used to produce fuck all. I further hate the idea of a bunch of storage for food being converted into a "mine" that produces fuck all. Can you be pro bitcoin and environmentally conscious? My congratulations to anyone winning at this. Perhaps you are smarter than I am. And I truly hope everyone here makes a killing with it. My feelings on bitcoin do not translate into wishes of bad fortune for anyone.
two questions:

1. "these things" - as in what things?
2. how did you deduce so definitively that bitcoin is "fuck all"?
 

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two questions:

1. "these things" - as in what things?
2. how did you deduce so definitively that bitcoin is "fuck all"?
These things as in the general overall omnipotent "these things"

I mean bitcoin produces no product, no societal benefit, and basically consumes power. I'm old and stupid. Something doesn't exist unless it's tangible to me. I don't exist in the metaverse. I'm a real world earthling of the natural variety. A super computer solving equations to no end goal is a philosophical waste to a dinosaur like myself.
 

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These things as in the general overall omnipotent "these things"

I mean bitcoin produces no product, no societal benefit, and basically consumes power. I'm old and stupid. Something doesn't exist unless it's tangible to me. I don't exist in the metaverse. I'm a real world earthling of the natural variety. A super computer solving equations to no end goal is a philosophical waste to a dinosaur like myself.
tangible? not in the metaverse? real world? you're online all day and night, what are you talking about?

you wouldn't have to read a wikipedia on blockchain for more than 5 minutes to know those statements are nonsense. you're just playing to your audience and turtling when challenged =)
 

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tangible? not in the metaverse? real world? you're online all day and night, what are you talking about?

you wouldn't have to read a wikipedia on blockchain for more than 5 minutes to know those statements are nonsense. you're just playing to your audience and turtling when challenged =)
I've read about the block chain. I'm not playing to any audience. I don't have an audience. It's my opinion, nothing more. Like I humbly stated earlier I could be wrong. I still don't like practices that produce no tangible product at the detriment of massive power and space use. I'm not alone in that being ordinances have been proposed in Apple storage country to curtail the growth of bitcoin mines. I hope people make millions with it. I have no ill will against those who trade it or invest in it. In short I just don't get it. I think it's a false economy. But again so are diamonds and if the money is real so be it but I will not be getting involved. It's not my expertise so my confidence is low and skepticism high. I will admit with the current trend of printing money it may be more reliable than the dollar at some point. Maybe this is that point.
 

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I've read about the block chain. I'm not playing to any audience. I don't have an audience. It's my opinion, nothing more. Like I humbly stated earlier I could be wrong. I still don't like practices that produce no tangible product at the detriment of massive power and space use. I'm not alone in that being ordinances have been proposed in Apple storage country to curtail the growth of bitcoin mines. I hope people make millions with it. I have no ill will against those who trade it or invest in it. In short I just don't get it. I think it's a false economy. But again so are diamonds and if the money is real so be it but I will not be getting involved. It's not my expertise so my confidence is low and skepticism high. I will admit with the current trend of printing money it may be more reliable than the dollar at some point. Maybe this is that point.
anything people value is economically real. you're still saying you have studied it, don't know about it, but know that it produces no tangible product. silly talk.

the tangible products are many, but one obvious example is secure, trust-less transactions. something you value, but get at a far inferior level, every time you login to your bank, etc. with a password. do you consider that software based security mechanism to be tangible?
 

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anything people value is economically real. you're still saying you have studied it, don't know about it, but know that it produces no tangible product. silly talk.

the tangible products are many, but one obvious example is secure, trust-less transactions. something you value, but get at a far inferior level, every time you login to your bank, etc. with a password. do you consider that software based security mechanism to be tangible?
My objection is the massive power use to produce something I see as intangible. It's not silly talk to study something and not see worth in it. I don't like the idea of using storage space for food as some pseudo production house. I see the power use as a waste. Just my opinion. If it's working for you then great. I don't see any benefit, product, or greater good. Models like this that produce nothing aren't very awesome for humanity or the environment IMHO. Without the power use and other issues I could care less. I simply would not have an opinion on it. I feel the same about Facebook ect. They produce nothing of merit in my book. Therefore are not anything I'd like to invest in. Yes, I'm leaving money on the table. A company's or person's work should stand for something. I don't see value. I also believe that a confidence economy is not truly real or sustainable. Is this the digital beanie baby? I don't know. The fact it scares the shit out of governments makes me want to like it but I don't like the mining process. I see it as a waste of resources.
 

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My objection is the massive power use to produce something I see as intangible. It's not silly talk to study something and not see worth in it. I don't like the idea of using storage space for food as some pseudo production house. I see the power use as a waste. Just my opinion. If it's working for you then great. I don't see any benefit, product, or greater good. Models like this that produce nothing aren't very awesome for humanity or the environment IMHO. Without the power use and other issues I could care less. I simply would not have an opinion on it. I feel the same about Facebook ect. They produce nothing of merit in my book. Therefore are not anything I'd like to invest in. Yes, I'm leaving money on the table. A company's or person's work should stand for something. I don't see value. I also believe that a confidence economy is not truly real or sustainable. Is this the digital beanie baby? I don't know. The fact it scares the shit out of governments makes me want to like it but I don't like the mining process. I see it as a waste of resources.
come on brother, you haven't studied it, let's get real. the things you've said so far are like saying you studied a football and found it to be round because it is a ball and most balls are round, therefore footballs and rugby balls are a "scheme".

how do you know that the power consumption is "massive" relative to the value it delivers and the scale of it's use? this FUD has been rationally addressed by excellent minds but it is easy to throw out there as misdirection. of course, to do so you'd have to be in the camp of people you have already said a zillion times can't be trusted. are you against trains? air travel? shipping?

you said something earlier that actually sounded like a thoughtful insight: "I will admit with the current trend of printing money it may be more reliable than the dollar at some point. Maybe this is that point."

there, you are on to one of the fundamental problems that bitcoin set out to solve. trust. which always means trusting power. which i know you do not.

the dollar used to mean trusting the universal human value of a shiny metal that was scarce, durable, difficult to obtain, and valued across persons, tribes, nations, and the globe. the dollar doesn't mean that anymore. it means trusting some of the worst people on earth to keep the dollar and it's reputation rock solid. how is that going? do you trust them? i know you don't. so when we speak of bitcoin specifically, and the blockchain broadly, as a trust-less system - we are speaking of independence from the power and corruption of human egos which have very sufficiently demonstrated the are not trustworthy.

now, you have a digital object, engineered to be difficult to obtain (mine) - costly, slow, arduous - fungible, rare, limited in supply, and immutable. and, in spite of the so called "skepticism" of folks who know nothing but speak boldly, it will soon be universally valued and desirable. now we have gold again. digital gold. and in this format, neither nixon nor putin nor xi nor any other ego can step in and decouple it's value from something universally valued to "cause i said so, and you can trust me". and furthermore, this gold is not only the currency, but it is also the infrastructure of banking and commerce, and the overarching security for all of that. see why the people you trust the least hate it the most?

just zoom out a little to your argument about diamonds. you obviously don't see value in a hard, shiny rock. i don't either, i'd rather have a guitar or a fly rod. and yet, the human race always has valued diamonds and gold and silver, etc. these are the things that can be currency: scarce, durable, costly to create, portable, divisible, fungible, and transferable. that's diamonds. that's gold. that's not fiat - because governments always eventually decide that their word is worth more than those things - because governments are always composed of the best and worst of humanity. what's the answer? something immutable that those assholes can't bugger with. that's bitcoin.

and btw, @Swimmy et. al., in light of your thoughts in the other thread about your boy xi, this is all context for exactly why we should all be celebrating the massive fumble of the ccp in attempting to essentially outlaw this technology and currency. they have boxed themselves out of something as fundamental as the internet. something that won't slow down while they gradually realize their error. they have forced the balance of hash power into the united states of america. let's hope our government doesn't f&ck this up. pick up the ball, run. such a no brainer.
 

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I can't believe they got the permits to bitcoin mine in Moses lake area. Most mining operations are very harmful to the environment & should be outlawed . Where's the outrage ?
 

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come on brother, you haven't studied it, let's get real. the things you've said so far are like saying you studied a football and found it to be round because it is a ball and most balls are round, therefore footballs and rugby balls are a "scheme".

how do you know that the power consumption is "massive" relative to the value it delivers and the scale of it's use? this FUD has been rationally addressed by excellent minds but it is easy to throw out there as misdirection. of course, to do so you'd have to be in the camp of people you have already said a zillion times can't be trusted. are you against trains? air travel? shipping?

you said something earlier that actually sounded like a thoughtful insight: "I will admit with the current trend of printing money it may be more reliable than the dollar at some point. Maybe this is that point."

there, you are on to one of the fundamental problems that bitcoin set out to solve. trust. which always means trusting power. which i know you do not.

the dollar used to mean trusting the universal human value of a shiny metal that was scarce, durable, difficult to obtain, and valued across persons, tribes, nations, and the globe. the dollar doesn't mean that anymore. it means trusting some of the worst people on earth to keep the dollar and it's reputation rock solid. how is that going? do you trust them? i know you don't. so when we speak of bitcoin specifically, and the blockchain broadly, as a trust-less system - we are speaking of independence from the power and corruption of human egos which have very sufficiently demonstrated the are not trustworthy.

now, you have a digital object, engineered to be difficult to obtain (mine) - costly, slow, arduous - fungible, rare, limited in supply, and immutable. and, in spite of the so called "skepticism" of folks who know nothing but speak boldly, it will soon be universally valued and desirable. now we have gold again. digital gold. and in this format, neither nixon nor putin nor xi nor any other ego can step in and decouple it's value from something universally valued to "cause i said so, and you can trust me". and furthermore, this gold is not only the currency, but it is also the infrastructure of banking and commerce, and the overarching security for all of that. see why the people you trust the least hate it the most?

just zoom out a little to your argument about diamonds. you obviously don't see value in a hard, shiny rock. i don't either, i'd rather have a guitar or a fly rod. and yet, the human race always has valued diamonds and gold and silver, etc. these are the things that can be currency: scarce, durable, costly to create, portable, divisible, fungible, and transferable. that's diamonds. that's gold. that's not fiat - because governments always eventually decide that their word is worth more than those things - because governments are always composed of the best and worst of humanity. what's the answer? something immutable that those assholes can't bugger with. that's bitcoin.

and btw, @Swimmy et. al., in light of your thoughts in the other thread about your boy xi, this is all context for exactly why we should all be celebrating the massive fumble of the ccp in attempting to essentially outlaw this technology and currency. they have boxed themselves out of something as fundamental as the internet. something that won't slow down while they gradually realize their error. they have forced the balance of hash power into the united states of america. let's hope our government doesn't f&ck this up. pick up the ball, run. such a no brainer.
I'd hardly call reading a couple articles study. I certainly never said I've studied it. I have stated several times I'm no expert on the subject. It's weird computer nerd shit at the end of the day and it makes me uneasy. We mock and fear that which we don't understand. You're gaining my interest though even through your veiled insult and superiority. You're starting to make a fair bit of sense. And you're definitely starting to really reel me in with the anti government rhetoric. You know what I like Educate me. Be gentle though I'm not half as smart as you.
 

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I'd hardly call reading a couple articles study. I certainly never said I've studied it. I have stated several times I'm no expert on the subject. It's weird computer nerd shit at the end of the day and it makes me uneasy. We mock and fear that which we don't understand. You're gaining my interest though even through your veiled insult and superiority. You're starting to make a fair bit of sense. And you're definitely starting to really reel me in with the anti government rhetoric. You know what I like Educate me. Be gentle though I'm not half as smart as you.
A man's got to know his limitations ,
 

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I'd hardly call reading a couple articles study. I certainly never said I've studied it. I have stated several times I'm no expert on the subject. It's weird computer nerd shit at the end of the day and it makes me uneasy. We mock and fear that which we don't understand. You're gaining my interest though even through your veiled insult and superiority. You're starting to make a fair bit of sense. And you're definitely starting to really reel me in with the anti government rhetoric. You know what I like Educate me. Be gentle though I'm not half as smart as you.
i don't think i insulted you, i can't see what you're referring to. no superiority here, nor smarts. you just keep saying, "i don't know about bitcoin", and then following that up by summarizing the whole thing in absolute terms. but let's not fuss any longer. i bet if you looked into this you'd see how much it aligns with many concerns you've expressed about society and government.
 

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I guess I just don't like the idea of a bunch of power being used to produce fuck all. I further hate the idea of a bunch of storage for food being converted into a "mine" that produces fuck all. Can you be pro bitcoin and environmentally conscious?
I don't agree that "fuck all" is being produced. However, I do agree that Bitcoin is a waste of energy. Tangentially though, the stock market also uses a lot of power and no one is really complaining about that.

There's a lot of newer crypto currencies that use significantly less power. For example, Bitcoin uses ~700kwh per transaction, while Dogecoin only uses ~0.1kwh per transaction. Unfortunately, they are nowhere near as popular as OG Bitcoin.
 
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