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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's been a couple of months since the fish kill. Thought you might like to see a report about the event, and why it happened.
A friend, J Buron, wrote it. Lone will get more fish soon, but it will be a while before they grow up.

Bottom line is that more carp need removal, because the kill might happen again if we do nothing. Help us. Month of May is a good time to fish grass carp.
 

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CCA, Hatchery Wild Coexist
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wow great article. from what i have been told Blackmans lake in snohomish also has a problem with grass carp. blackmans was once a pretty nice fishery. now even with the state and snohomish sportsmen club planting the lake, it continues to fish badly every year.
i wonder why the state doesnt learn from the problems in the great lakes. they have a really bad carp problem in some places over there.
 

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Make my day
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So as it stands empty of anything but the grass carp, wouldn't this be a great time to just rotenone the lake?
 

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Make my day
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How about taking a couple of sea lions from the locks and toss them in there. I'll bet they clear out the carp in no time.
 
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Why don't they rotenone the lake now? Get rid of the carp and bass. Seems like the best possible solution at this juncture. If it doesn't work at least we're not killing a bunch of big fatty rainbows for nothing.
 

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Thanks for the report. Looks like this lake is in good hands. There is certainly no shortage of love for this lake.
Regrettably, it seems like this lake should be stabilized before reintroducing the trout.
 

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What a great report. Thanks!

I too believe a rotenone application is what is required.

Since the presence of aquatic vegetation is thought to be an important factor in buffering the effects of algae blooms, and the carp are thought to have denuded the lake of aquatic vegetation, then, if both are correct, the best (and only?) way to effectively address the underlying problem is to remove the carp. Extensive past efforts would lead one to conclude that something else needs to be done. The range of options appears to pretty much come down to 1) kill off the carp and start fresh ; or 2) keep doing the same.

Unfortunately, using rotenone is not in the cards. I have been told that a rotenone application is not possible at this time because there is an annual review and then a long permitting process. Plus, there's an expectation that public perception would likely prevent such a project.

So, for the coming year, some smaller surplus trout are going to be stocked in the Fall and the normal stocking of 3,000ish "catchables" will take place in March. The only option that seems to be available right now is to keep doing the same, close our eyes, and hope like hell that the same thing doesn't happen again.

What did Einstein say about the definition of insanity..? :)
 

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Thanks for this nicely drafted history Jerry,

It's a bummer about not being able to use rotenone....I was thinking that as I read though the doc. Thanks too, to all of those who devoted a lot of time and effort to try and slay some of those bastards. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm amazed they introduced so many carp given they're tough ol' bastards and live for a very long time. Why not stock a few big ones, see how it goes and then add more, or if not needed at least you know they've only say 10 yrs to live.

A buddy of mine hooked one a couple of yrs ago but he broke it off, perhaps form now on, any carp bycatch should be immediately bonked and dropped into the depths, in fact given the eutrophication, binned on land so they don't add further nutrients into that messed up Biosystem.

Dave
 

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Bingo!!!!

From the Texas link in the previous post. Apparently grass carp ....

"go dormant during the winter and resume intensive feeding when water temperatures reach 68°F."

Get some scuba groups to swing by? Do they do much in the winter? Newbie training in shallow water and also kill the feckers in the winter via spear fishing. A fully selective, non invasive, non toxic sort of culling; what's not to like or protest about? Probably pick up some 'lost' gear to sell on too?

I'd imagine it could be effective as Lone is clear in winter unless grass carp bury themselves in mud (wouldn't surprise me BTW), idiot thought or not?

It's 90 odd acres but I'd imagine fisheries folks have figured out the depth/temp they like to 'hibernate' and if they're static if under 68F, it could be cleared...grid by grid?

Dave
 

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Very interesting link. The one thing that stood out to me was:

Rectangle Font Art Magenta Brand


Ooops.

I'd love to find out more about the analysis that went into stocking 8 fish per acre, and who did the analysis... the Island County Noxious Weed Board? What the hell do they know about managing a fishery?

From Jerry's write up, the problem (Brazilian elodea) had already been eliminated with flouridone before the carp were introduced - what genius(es) decided 8 per acre were needed to take care of a problem that didn't actually exist at the time?

LOVE the spear fishing idea. I'll bet it could impact the numbers. Certainly better than 37 fish in 4 years.
 

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bchapman -
I belief the model WDFW used to determine grass carp planting levels was based on work for Scott Bonar's PHD thesis at the UW (1990?). After a short time at WDFW I believe he moved on to Arizona. I would think limited internet search would yield some reading for you.

While not scientific my observations has been that stocking model while fairly reliable in the short term (less than 5 years) the overall survival, life span, and the resulting biomass of grass carp a number years post released was underestimated

Curt
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The permit from WDFW allowed up to 8 per acre, and only one stocking event. Weed Board asked to stock at a lower level initially, and then stock the rest later if needed. That request was denied. They only got one shot, so they went for the max. This is from personal conversation with noxious weed coordinator. By 2010 she was calling for their removal!

So we tried.
 

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