I've seen too many fish broke off because of the loop connection between the fly line and the leader. As you've seen, there is almost always a problem with the knot colliding against the guides. Even if they're small, they hit the guides. I've also seen them wear and create weak spots and can be easily broken. I don't use them and advise my guests to remove them and use nailknots instead. Loop connections seem to have been invented for the people that aren't familiar with tying a nailknot, I remove them every chance I get.

 

I use a loop connector but my rule is that it NEVER goes into a guide for exactly the above reason. I have the last inch of my fly line bright fluoro red so I can see it easily. I rarely use longer than 9 ft leaders unless I am dry fly fishing on a lake. Otherwise I make due and mend my butt off with a shorter leader to keep the fly drag free.

 

Thanks fellas,
Haven't tried to tie the 30# butt sections of my leaders to the small diameters of the sink tips but will give it a wirl.
Thanks
DS

 

Several coats of pliobond on your knots and they go through fine. Also, turning the rod upside down at the end also works.

Randy

 

.

 

Loops are a pain. When I buy a new leader with a loop I cut it off and nail knot it in place. Put a little tension on the fly line-leader joint and add a drop of cement to the joint and fair it in. Once this dries the joint will go through the tip top with a minimum of fuss. I think it cast better also. Ive

 

When using a sink tip I usually just nail knot a 5 or 6 foot piece of 10# right to it. I dont use tippets or tapered leaders with my sinking lines.

 

I Have Used Both. I Have Lost A Fish As Well Due To Them Damn Knots Hanging In My Guides. I Have Been Told That If You Put A Gob Of Shoe Goo Onto The Knot, It Will Go Through Just Fine. I Have Yet To Try This, For Now I Have The Loop Connectors On And As Long As My Knot On My Leader Is All Trimed Up, It Makes It Through Just Fine.


Ty

 

I actually use and albright knot instead of a nail knot for larger fish. It seems that it would hold the best, although admittedly the knot is bulkier. But then again, they are usually on sink tips anyways where the leader is fairly short and should rarely see the tip top of a rod anyways.

As for trout, I am in the middle of an experimentation phase. I had always thought that the scientific anglers L2L connection was for lazies who didnt want to take the time to learn a nail knot. Then a couple of weeks ago the SA rep came into the store and showed that the connection was strong enough for trout and that it could be used for another purpose. He showed how some people use it as a quick way to change out leaders. Maybe I am retarded but I never really thought about using them that way. Now I can have a few rigs set up (I wrap leaders around 12" section of those foam noodles kids play with in the water, something i used to do with leaders back in the days of gear fishing). So whenever I am working my way up a river, I can change from a nymph rig to a dry fly rig in a few seconds, without wasting tippet or split shot, but most importantly without wasting time. So far it has worked fairly well.

 

Loops for multi-tip and shooting head applications, nail knot for floating lines.
Just a personal preference, but I just never like the loops will fishing a floating line. I know others that do use loops on floaters with no problems or complaints.
Brian

 

I use loops on everything. I use 2 methods.

At the end of a fly line with no interchangeable tips such as a WF-F I use the fly line to create the loop and whip finish and coat with aquaseal.

For shooting heads and multi-tip systems I use 50# loops for 8wt and up, 30# loops for 6wt and down. I whip finish the connector onto the fly line in 2 places, and coat the whip with aquaseal. I do not use heat shrink connectors to secure the loop, but might use it at the end of the loop transition to the fly line.

I find loops allow me to adjust to changing conditions much faster (or, I am more willing to change up since it is easier), and I can add lengths of LC13 to floating lines or tips temporarily if conditions warrant.

I don't find that loops bind in the guides any more than albright knotted line\leader connection, and even less if they hand shake correctly.

I did try the Kevlar loops and found them to be very stiff, and incredibly durable, but they don't hand shake well and grind though the guides making a horrible sawing sound.

 

Surf Candy,
What material do you use to Whip finish the ends?
DS

 

i use both. all of my tips have a short chunk of 30# mason attached with a nail knot. that piece has a surgeons loop in place. since these last quite a while, i usually put a drop of UV knot on both connection points. i also use a connecting piece on all of my floating lines from 3wt - 12wt, same drill for attachment.

there is a CORRECT way to do a loop to loop connection and if folks are having problems with break offs, its more than likely a result of not closing these two loops together properly. sometimes this is tough to do with stiff mono but if you get it right once, it will take a set and be easy the next time you have to change.

 

I've seen too many fish broke off because of the loop connection between the fly line and the leader. As you've seen, there is almost always a problem with the knot colliding against the guides. Even if they're small, they hit the guides. I've also seen them wear and create weak spots and can be easily broken. I don't use them and advise my guests to remove them and use nailknots instead. Loop connections seem to have been invented for the people that aren't familiar with tying a nailknot, I remove them every chance I get.

Amen! I always tie in with a nail knot, but sunday I was fishing for steel and I had been using my cheapo orvis dt floating line that came with a loop connection (not my line of choice but I forgot the rio steelhead taper at home). Needless to say it was a catastrophe, the second fish that I hooked up with took the whole rig, leader, fly and all.
Never again!

 

Love loops. Seen many use them for some years now and got me hooked on them. Easy quick tip changes, also use loops on tip/butt ends etc. A few ft of tippet with fly one end/surgeon's loop the other and changing out a fly is quicker than someone else lighting their cigarette. I never do flouro to flouro but typically use a 2-4' flouro tippet piece on end of my tips. Haven't had failure issues with them. Only knot breaks I get that annoy me are typically double overhand knots in joined tippet sections.

Don't have loop hangup issues in the guides, are the hangup issues on smaller weight rods with smaller eyes? My 16wt floating line (chopped chunk for skagit 700 head) can rattle any knot in my guides that's not coated but it's already closing on garden hose diameter

Ditto on loving the knot sense/don't use it too much but great to have and have used it most to touch up egg flies etc being torn apart.

 

Wow, sounds like Florida's voters all over again. And even more complicated....

I have used both loops and nail knots over the past several years, and my vote goes to the nail knot. Lets see...what space do I punch on this card??? Oh yeah, focus on the issue.

Loop - I have found that loops distract from the cast, expecially when trying delicate presentations. They can get bent and stiff, especially when glue is used to keep them on the main line, and they make a ruckus when they hit the water. A definite desadvantage when lake fishing. The only benefit I know of is the ease of replacing the leader.

Nail knot - Properly tied and trimmed, they zip right through eylets, either snake or single. The key is properly tied and trimmed. I normally use six wraps to make sure there is no overlap that adds bulk, and pull to tighten from BOTH ends. I get very streamlined knots this way and I have NEVER had one break or come loose, even up in Alaska on big kings. I trim both tags as close to the line as possible and at a 45 degree angle to the main line. Although some people glue them down, I have never needed to, even with very light tippet. Of course the drawback is they are difficult to tie, especially in the field.

My recommendation if you want to use nail knots is to tie a bunch of them and find the right way for you to get a really low profile knot.:thumb:

 

I use both. I nail knot the leader butt section to most of my floating lines, and all trout lines, and also some of my standard sink tip lines, like factory built 10' sink tips. Most of my steelhead sink tips, and all Spey lines, floating and sinking, have a loop on the end.

I don't have a problem with either getting hung up in the guides because I never draw the leader in through the rod tip while fishing. I've had both loops and nailknots fail, but not with a fish, only when solidly hung up on the bottom. It took more force than I ever put on my rods or a fish to break it free, so I haven't thought that either type of connection was faulty.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

 

I use em, but i dont do any salmon/steelhead fishing. The biggest fish i ever deal with are around 17-18", so breaking lines isn't really a big issue for me.

 

No loops for me, I'm a big fan of the Albright knot, instead of the nail knot. Nail knot is ok for trout fishing, but ever since i lost a nice a$$ steelhead to a nail knot pulling off the tip i have used albright and haven't blinked since. As far as knots getting caught in the guides, i guess most of the time i'm using sinktips with leaders no longer than 5 feet, so if i'm fighting a fish, the knot dosen't even go through the guides.

On loop connections- I don't think they are the best for connecting the leader to the tip in the type of fishing i do for salmon and steelhead. Especially with a spey rod, I want the line to be able to easily turn over my whole leader and fly. With loops that aren't PROPERLY constructed, especially when connecting the leader to the tip, let alone loop connections to cheaters from the tip and to the belly,etc.; if there is not a flawless transfer of energy, a "hinge" effect is created which inhibits turning over a fly and leader. The albright knot creates a great transfer of energy if heavy enough leader is used, i usually use 30lb. maxima, and has never once slipped off my tip, unlike the nailknot which especially tends to slip off T-14.

 

DS - use size A multi-strand thread. Use your bobbin and do it like these

http://www.activeangler.com/articles/flyfishing/articles/doug_macnair/tippets3.asp

and here

http://www.sydneyflyfishing.com.au/recipes_detail.html?ID=08898&_SKU=1&startat=[startat]&index_no=4

You can also look in Lefty's Advanced fly Fishing book. I use waxed dental floss to pull the end of the whip under about 20 turns of thread.

I use Red for the thread color that goes against the backing or running line. That way I always know the back end of the fly line. Use a color simialr to the fly line for the business end.

I check them each season - insert your hemostats into the loop and pull liek hell. I have never had one come off.

Surf

 

woops

 

I use loops and don't have any problems even with the 20 ft plus leaders going thru the guides. You need to know how to make a loop that slides thru the guides easily. Trout fishing seems to work with either the nail or loop but I have seen a ton of nail knot problems with warm salt water species. The only bad hangup I've ever had was when using the guides rod and he had a nail knot to backing connection, it nearly lost me the bonefish. I have gone back to all my lines and cut off other connections in favor of the loop. If the line is monocore, I just loop the line on itself and make a wrap over the free end to bind it to the main line. If it is a braided core line I scrape the finish off and make a trim loop back to the main line and bind it down with 8/0 thread. It only takes a few minutes and has never failed me. I use super glue to seal the deal and coat the thread area. Try it on one of your lines and judge for yourself.

 

here is a photo of a whiped loop that a friend of mine dos.
she says that it works great never has broken
see ya Greg :beer2:

 

I use 2 different methods that haven't been mentioned (exactly) so far.

On my lines up to 8 weight I use a method I read about in a Fly Fisherman article by Dave Whitlock. A bit complicated but no knot at all. Basically you use put the eye of a needle back up through the end of the fly line about .75 inch and push it through the coating. Thread a new leader through the eye and then pull the leader through the center of the line until you get close to the end of the butt. Use a piece of sandpaper to lightly scuff .75" of the leader butt. Put a small amount of a good superglue on the scuffed section and then quickly pull it back into the fly line. Dab off any extra glue before it sets and then put a tiny drop on the line to seal the hole. I have never had one of these pull out, they float better than a nail knot and have no bumps at all. Expecially nice with long leader chironomid fishing.

On my heavy lines and heads I use for dorado I use a double catch braided loop (at least 4" pushed over the fly line) secured with a nail knot. Then I attach a butt section (usually 40#) using a 3 turn sheet bend. That's only a 70% or knot but still comes out higher than the class tippet. It draws the loop down tight and also doesn't show as much bulk as the loop to loop. I put a Kreh non-slip loop in the end of the butt section and prepare a bunch of class/shock tippet sections to attach to that with another loop. Allows for a quick change, near 100% connection. These ideas were from a guy named Bill Nash who regularly posts on another site.

 

sorry