[Mike]

I read on the Blanton site where New Zealanders have come up with an approved way to treat their felt soled wading boots that both maintains both traction and seals the felt from absorbing didmo and other organisms. As you may be aware, New Zealand has lead the way in trying to address the issue of invasive organisms in their trout waters by eliminating felt soles on wading boots. So with the same possibility of similar pending legislation in the US, this was of interest to me.

I read over and over that the new rubber sole wading boots are "nearly as good" as felt, except of course, when they weren't. So while I appreciate the issues surrounding harmful organisms entering our waters, I also appreciate my safety. With that in mind I looked at the process forwarded to me by Marcel Ryda in New Zealand. Reading the process I understand how the felt is sealed. The process calls for sealing the felt with adhesive and applying carbide grit (and optional studs). I think that the biggest issue is if you use a drift boat. Carbide and fiberglass boat decks don't mix very well. With that in mind I sent Marcel a follow up note asking how they deal with the boat issue. His response was that the treated soles minus the carbide grip works just as well as regular felts soles.

Hopefully the powers that be will give this method consideration just as the New Zealand Fish and Game Council has. It would be a shame to have to wade with a less safe type of sole.

 

[Steve Saville]

I'm no genious so bear with me. It seems that if you seal the felt, it will no longer absord the water. I have always believed that felt was so much safer because it absorbed water and expanded to cushion around the rocky bottom and conform. The soft sole then adheres better because of the softnesss of the cushion. The reason hard soles don't work as well is because they do not flex as well or conform to a rocky shape so they slide off. Putting carbide grit on the bottom might do as much damage as the studs. I don't know. Am I under some wrong assumptios?

 

[gone johnson]

The reason felt works is because it acts as an abrasive and removes the slime form the rocks that make them so slippery.

I'd say with all my local rivers closed, what I wear on my feet is a moot point.

 

[Out of Here]

It would be nice to know what's in the solvent, and the adhesive, prior to doing this. Last thing the water needs is more chemicals in it.

 

[Steve Saville]

Amen, brother.

 

[Craig Schulz]

Here is the top sheet from the MSDS Sheet from CRC the manufacturer of ADOS. To sum it up it would not be allowed in out manufacturing facility, yet alone would I even think about putting it in or on something that will come in direct contact with a fragile ecosystem, NO! The best treatment I have seen or used yet is a 10 to 1 water to bleach solution, let the soles soak for about 30 minutes and rinse with warm water, treated and ready to fish!

CRC 8002, 8016 F2 CONTACT ADHESIVE (NZ)

INGREDIENTSCAS No%TWAtoluene108-88-310-3050 ppmacetone67-64-110-30500 ppm


UN No :1133
Hazchem Code :*3YE
DG Class :3
Subsidiary Risk :None
Poisons Schedule :NZS3


PROPERTIES

Liquid.
Does not mix with water.
Floats on water.


HAZARD PHRASES

DANGER
Determined by Chemwatch using GHS criteria:
H335 H336 H225 H302 H304 H361 H373 H401 H315 H319
May cause respiratory irritation
May cause drowsiness or dizziness
Highly flammable liquid and vapour
Harmful if swallowed
May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways
Suspected of damaging the unborn child
May cause damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure by inhalation.
Toxic to aquatic life
Causes skin irritation
Causes serious eye irritation


FIRST AID

Swallowed:
Contact doctor or Poisons Centre.
Give glass of water.

Eye:
Wash with running water (15 mins). Medical attention.

Skin:
Remove contaminated clothing. Wash with water and soap.

Inhaled:
Fresh air. Rest, keep warm. If breathing shallow, give oxygen. Medical attention.


SAFE STORAGE WITH OTHER CLASSIFIED CHEMICALS


+ X X X X +

X: Must not be stored together
O: May be stored together with specific preventions
+: May be stored together




PRECAUTIONS FOR USE

Engineering Controls:
General Exhaust Ventilation adequate.

Glasses:
Chemical goggles.

Gloves:
PVC chemical resistant type.

Respirator:
Type AX-P Filter of sufficient capacity
Flammability:
Highly flammable.


SAFE HANDLING INFORMATION

Storage & Transport:
Keep container in a well ventilated place.
Keep away from food, drink and animal feeding stuffs.
Store in cool, dry, protected area.
Restrictions on Storage apply. Refer to Full Report.

Spills & Disposal:
Spilled liquid has low temperature and evaporates quickly.
Eliminate ignition sources.
Consider evacuation.
Prevent from entering drains.
Contain spillage by any means.
Control vapour with water spray/fog.
Absorb with dry agent.
Stop leak if safe to do so.
To clean the floor and all objects contaminated by this material, use water and detergent.

Fire/Explosion Hazard:
Highly flammable.

Fire Fighting:
Keep containers cool.
Foam.
Dry agent.


ADVICE TO DOCTOR

Evaluate for respiratory distress. Consider lavage with cuffed tube. NO adrenalin.

 

[Mike]

Good question. I looked at the NZ MSDS (material safety data sheet) on the ADOS F2. It is manufactured by CDC, a US company but not sold under that name in the US. The NZ MSDS states the ADOS F2 is a rubber (latex) contact adhesive. It uses toluene, and acetone and hexane isomers as solvents. (nasty stuff) I did a search on rubber contact adhesive in the US and found a number the rubber contact adhesives such as Barge cement and DAP Weldwood. DAP Weldwood uses toluene, MEK and petroleum distillate as solvent. (nasty stuff as well). I imagine that these as the same types of adhesives that are used to a hold a sole to a boot in the first place. By thinning the adhesive and allowing it to be absorbed into the felt, water can’t be absorbed but the felt but according to the New Zealanders, the felt will retain it gripping properties. Basically, you have just rubberized the felt.

 

[Chad Lewis]

I'm not so sure about this. When you're done, you don't have a felt sole at all. It's rubber, or something manufactured in your garage that approximates rubber, with silica in it. Basically it's non-skid. You could do the exact same thing to the sole of any boot and probably get the same results. And since the felt is saturated, it probably takes a lot longer than you think for all the solvents to leach out, meaning it'd go into the water. And you won't get all the felt saturated anyway, so it'll still hold and transport some water. And as you use the boots the stuff will wear off and expose the felt underneath. This is pretty obvious stuff- who knows what other effects there are. And can you trust people to do this right (if there is a right way) in their garage? How long until people are using whatever they want, like non-skid paint? Who would, or could enforce such a thing? Not to mention that the wading boot manufacturers would be doing it if it worked. Why would they put out a product that's not as good as felt if they could avoid doing so?

I'd be hard pressed to not call someone who did this a dumbass. And if someone in New Zealand is actually thinking about approving this for national use, well, dumbass is being pretty kind. And Mike the dumbass comments aren't directed at you. Actually, thanks for sharing the information.

Environmental stewardship is something that's talked about a lot in flyfishing circles, and we are leaders in this respect. I haven't met a flyfisher yet that doesn't subscribe to that view, at least at some level. So, it can be hard to accept that what we've been doing for years has damaged the ecosystems we love to visit, but we learn and we move on. If that means giving up something that we value, then that sacrifice has to be made.

 

[Mumbles]

Interesting innovation, there is always someone looking to make advances. Most of those advances actually end up being ineffective or steps backwards. When the big boot guys start pushing this to retrofit their older felt soles it might merit some consideration. I've not seen Orvis, Simms, Patagonia, Korkers or anyone else saying they believe this nor do I see them selling this silica based rubber product.

I'm fine with my felts for some situations and my korkers guides with rubber soles for other situations. No need for me to undertake this project, I've got plenty of others. Here is to innovation, what is the next item up for consideration?

 

[jcnewbie]

All this hyperbole about felt soles being the sole (pun intended) carrier of invasive species is misstated, misguided and partially misdirected in the sense that these little nasties infest every nook 'n cranny of your wading equipment from waders to boots.

Bootlaces, boot tongues, boot fabrics & all seams, gravel guards & their seams, insoles and the inside of wading boots are all hiding places for these bugs. I see little benefit to water quality/purity by eliminating felt soles on wading boots…..but it certainly will benefit the companies who sell these "environmentally safe" and "invasive species proof" booties that we are morally bound to purchase if we care at all about our little fishies futures!

To head off the anticipated denials: Is it a step in the right direction? Of course! Is it the solution. No, not even close. I don't honestly know what the correct solution is - maybe we should be required to purchase and wear boots & waders only in State specific waters and then they must be turned in and destroyed (or boiled for 30 minutes maybe)! Maybe these items could be rented from local merchants or even cute little streamside kiosks with a deposit of $1000.00 in cash (no credit cards) to be refunded upon return of rented items, minus the $767.00 rental fee. These items could then either be "flash incinerated" or boiled vigorously for 30 minutes and re-rented to the next well-heeled fishermen.

For the less well-heeled among us, we could rent a "Hazmat-type wading suit" for a piddling $500 bucks deposit, also to be refunded, less the $343.00 rental fee of course, upon return.

To make this even more attractive from a marketing incentive standpoint, they could offer "Continental Breakfasts and ½ sandwich 'n cup 'o soup specials" at the kiosks for a nominal fee or even perhaps free for first time users. This could be a great encouragement for "Out-of-Staters" to purchase fishing licenses to "Come Fly Fish the Pristine and Invasive Species Free Waters of _________ State (wherever)."

These measures in my opinion will do far more to ensure the future of fishing in America (or New Zealand) that any other method thus far suggested.:ray1:

Jc:beathead::clown::beathead:

 

[Chad Lewis]

JC, I like your business model. I think we should get together and round up some investors.

 

[jcnewbie]

Chad,

Investors should be a cinch. We just set up a giant Ponzi scheme, ala, Bernie Madoff and guarantee 1000% return on investment of life and retirement savings. Of course we'll target the aged already teetering on the brink of dementia in the hope that by the time it all goes in the tank, it'll be too late and we'll then be retired to the Caribbean somewhere (also teetering on the brink of dementia!). We should start in Florida, the epicenter of "hanging chads," as this would be the most lucrative startup location. As the saying goes, "location, location, location" is always the essential key to success in any endeavor from commercial Real Estate sales to Space Shuttle launches.

Or better yet, maybe startup in Washington D.C…..as the per captia ratio of dementia is rampant and obvious! Should be a no-brainer there…..

Jc:beer1: