[LilCutts]

hey dudes and dudettes, I just came across this article in the NYT. It's an opinion piece by the author who wrote "The Quest for the Golden Trout." (Link below.) It was a thinker for me. I mean, I'm not going to stop fishing. At least not anytime soon. But reading this did give me pause. Too bad that trout fishing is my jam and I'm barely interested in other fish.

I really do blame those who came before us and behaved like the resources would never end, killing just for the kill, but at the same time there are plenty still doing that today.

I also had no idea that Rainbows are only native to parts of California but were stocked just about everywhere.

Anyone have thoughts on this beyond "this is dumb" or "get used to it"?

Happy March y'all!!! May your nets be full

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/opinion/the-cost-of-trout-fishing.html

 

[Mike.Cline]

I also had no idea that Rainbows are only native to parts of California but were stocked just about everywhere.

I didn't see this in the article but its not accurate. Rainbow Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) and its 14 subspecies have a native range from the Alaska Peninsula south to the mountains of Sierra Madre Occidental in Northern Mexico. The species native range extends east into Idaho and NW Montana. The rainbow is also native to the Kamchatka Peninsula in Asia.

If you are seriously interested in learning about introductions of Rainbows and Browns I commend the following works:

An Entirely Synthetic Fish-How Rainbow Trout Beguiled America and Overran the World (2010), Anders Halverson

The Trout's Tail-The Fish That Conquered an Empire (2013), Chris Newton

 

[LilCutts]

I didn't see this in the article but its not accurate. Rainbow Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) and its 14 subspecies have a native range from the Alaska Peninsula south to the mountains of Sierra Madre Occidental in Northern Mexico. The species native range extends east into Idaho and NW Montana. The rainbow is also native to the Kamchatka Peninsula in Asia.

If you are seriously interested in learning about introductions of Rainbows and Browns I commend the following works:

An Entirely Synthetic Fish-How Rainbow Trout Beguiled America and Overran the World (2010), Anders Halverson

The Trout's Tail-The Fish That Conquered an Empire (2013), Chris Newton

Thank you!

 

[LilCutts]

14 species?! Time to get on google, here we go. -ignorant brook trout person

 

[LilCutts]

14 species?! Time to get on google, here we go. -ignorant brook trout person

*subspecies

 

[LilCutts]

Wow does that mean that golden trout are actually a subspecies of rainbows?

 

[Mike.Cline]

Wow does that mean that golden trout are actually a subspecies of rainbows?

Indeed, the Golden Trout (O. mykiss augabonita) of the Southern Sierras (Kern River watershed) are a subspecies of Rainbow Trout.

 

[LilCutts]

I didn't see this in the article but its not accurate. Rainbow Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) and its 14 subspecies have a native range from the Alaska Peninsula south to the mountains of Sierra Madre Occidental in Northern Mexico. The species native range extends east into Idaho and NW Montana. The rainbow is also native to the Kamchatka Peninsula in Asia.

If you are seriously interested in learning about introductions of Rainbows and Browns I commend the following works:

An Entirely Synthetic Fish-How Rainbow Trout Beguiled America and Overran the World (2010), Anders Halverson

The Trout's Tail-The Fish That Conquered an Empire (2013), Chris Newton

What did you think of the article?

 

[DeadandBloated]

This book by expert Robert Behnke is really the full deal on our native salmonid distributions with additional non-native planted trout of North America.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743222202

 

[Mike.Cline]

What did you think of the article?

Well it was an opinion piece and the opinions not well supported with facts one way or the other. All forms of human endeavor pollute in some manner or the other, habitat destruction being the most common form. It really comes down to what level of pollution is tolerable. From a fish stocking standpoint, here in MT they stopped stocking streams in the mid-1970s with great success. Although we have hatcheries, the fish go to lakes, not streams (except for westslope Cutt reintroductions). If we didn't have hatcheries, we wouldn't be able to have westslope reintroduction programs.

Here's a decent paper on the pros and cons of aquaculture: Fish Hatcheries Benefits and Drawbacks

 

[No longer with us]

When they ended stocking of the Metolius River in 1995, it was all doom and gloom, the river would die, local businesses would go under. Redd counts of the era were approximately 200. The Metolius was doomed....

Today, redd counts are in the thousands (upwards of 2,000 in 2018). The Metolius is one of the healthiest streams in the Deschutes basin. It is a destination fishery. Camp Sherman thrives (even through the pandemic).

Can this be a lesson learned?

cheers

 

[LilCutts]

This book by expert Robert Behnke is really the full deal on our native salmonids distributions with additional non-native planted trout.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0743222202

Thanks. All I know is that my beloved native wild Brookies are not always appreciated

 

[LilCutts]

When they ended stocking of the Metolius River in 1995, it was all doom and gloom, the river would die, local businesses would go under. Redd counts of the era were approximately 200. The Metolius was doomed....

Today, redd counts are in the thousands (upwards of 2,000 in 2018). The Metolius is one of the healthiest streams in the Deschutes basin. It is a destination fishery. Camp Sherman thrives (even through the pandemic).

Can this be a lesson learned?

cheers

If I can ever actually land a fish on the metolius you'd be the first to know!

 

[LilCutts]

If I can ever actually land a fish on the metolius you'd be the first to know!

I just realized this same thread topic began in 1995 - jumping over there (watch me get scolded for "thread/post bumping"?)

 

[SignorVince]

Well it was an opinion piece and the opinions not well supported with facts one way or the other. All forms of human endeavor pollute in some manner or the other, habitat destruction being the most common form. It really comes down to what level of pollution is tolerable. From a fish stocking standpoint, here in MT they stopped stocking streams in the mid-1970s with great success. Although we have hatcheries, the fish go to lakes, not streams (except for westslope Cutt reintroductions). If we didn't have hatcheries, we wouldn't be able to have westslope reintroduction programs.

Here's a decent paper on the pros and cons of aquaculture: Fish Hatcheries Benefits and Drawbacks

Montana (specifically the Madison) was the exact river that popped into my head when reading the article. Maybe I need to fish more, but the Madison is one of the best places that I've ever fished and it receives a lot of pressure year over year.

I think that hatcheries likely do contribute a lot of nutrient loading to watersheds and they likely can (and should) do more to reduce their impact. I do wonder if there are other ways to increase fish numbers in the wild while also reducing the waste into surrounding watersheds.

 

[LilCutts]

Montana (specifically the Madison) was the exact river that popped into my head when reading the article. Maybe I need to fish more, but the Madison is one of the best places that I've ever fished and it receives a lot of pressure year over year.

I think that hatcheries likely do contribute a lot of nutrient loading to watersheds and they likely can (and should) do more to reduce their impact. I do wonder if there are other ways to increase fish numbers in the wild while also reducing the waste into surrounding watersheds.

The Madison came to mind immediately to me too. I'm sure you're right about the nutrient loading. There's also habitat damage that comes with soil erosion due to bank fishing and wading to some extent. Obviously that's a smaller factor but at least it's one we can have some control over.

Gist: pay attention to your environment and access points, and don't walk like a moose.

 

[LilCutts]

Well it was an opinion piece and the opinions not well supported with facts one way or the other. All forms of human endeavor pollute in some manner or the other, habitat destruction being the most common form. It really comes down to what level of pollution is tolerable. From a fish stocking standpoint, here in MT they stopped stocking streams in the mid-1970s with great success. Although we have hatcheries, the fish go to lakes, not streams (except for westslope Cutt reintroductions). If we didn't have hatcheries, we wouldn't be able to have westslope reintroduction programs.

Here's a decent paper on the pros and cons of aquaculture: Fish Hatcheries Benefits and Drawbacks

Thanks Mike. Moving to Montana probably

 

[Mike.Cline]

It's pretty easy to blame hatcheries as polluters but their contributions to nutrient overloads in watersheds is minuscule compared to other human endeavors. This is a bit dated but I suspect the overall conclusions are not that far off from today's world.


Nonpoint and Point Sources of Nitrogen in Major Watersheds of the United States

 

[Olive bugger]

And not one word about the spunky little Blue Gills.

 

[CreekScrambler]

The “golden trout” that the author mentions without context is most certainly not the California Golden variety, but a hatchery strain of rainbow that has a sickly, jaundiced-yellow coloring. It’s worth noting that he’s writing from a perspective of the Northeast, which has indeed been horrifically overrun with people for a very long time. It’s kind of like refinery alley in Texas, where there’s just not much “environment” to protect.

Fish have to be stocked in the NE or they would disappear in a heartbeat. The native fish mostly disappeared once already, and they’re down to stockers or nothing. Not at all analogous to the vast public lands here in the West.

I’ve only heard of “dead zones” in the context of net pen farms, and never from land-based trout hatcheries. I’m mostly familiar with stocking to support food fish & steelhead in their native range, and lakes that don’t really interact with the rest of their environment. The NE is pretty pounded-out from a habitat standpoint, far worse than our situation west of the Front Range.