I know that it's the time of year to keep an eye out for salmon redds and to make sure to avoid them when wading. Can you guys share your thoughts on how to spot salmon redds and good ways to avoid them while wading?? Thanks.
Dylan D
That's a really good point. Sometimes it can be really tough to tell. Here's a couple I know:
1) If the stream has salmon and you're standing in gravel or sand, you might be in trouble.
2) The powers that be, wheter Indian Nation, the WSDFW or whatever marks reds with little white posts with orange/red/pink ribbon.
I would love to hear how the rest of you ID things because I know I'm missing a lot..
Sparse
Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by.
(Sir Izaak Walton)
1) If the stream has salmon and you're standing in gravel or sand, you might be in trouble.
2) The powers that be, wheter Indian Nation, the WSDFW or whatever marks reds with little white posts with orange/red/pink ribbon.
I would love to hear how the rest of you ID things because I know I'm missing a lot..
Sparse
Streams are made for the wise man to contemplate and fools to pass by.
(Sir Izaak Walton)
Fresh redds are easy to spot. Look for elongated disturbances of the bottom, generally gravel. They are generally in the slower water like pools or on the slow side of the current. The problem now is that with all the water moving out of the rivers a lot of redds are going to be indistinguishable.
Yes the poweres to be mark redds but not all redds! With the rains we have had I would be surprised if any marking remains.
A rule of thumb I use is to not wade in slower water. If there are fish in there now there were fish in there before so i just avoid getting in spawning water and wade the faster water if I need to get in the water.
Dave
Yes the poweres to be mark redds but not all redds! With the rains we have had I would be surprised if any marking remains.
A rule of thumb I use is to not wade in slower water. If there are fish in there now there were fish in there before so i just avoid getting in spawning water and wade the faster water if I need to get in the water.
Dave
Redds are usually found in the tailout of a pool, or possibly in the riffle. Very rarely are they in the main body of a pool, in long riffles or glides. They want water running through the gravel, not on top of it, to oxygenate the redd.
Right after a redd is constructed it is a oval of cleaned gravel, usually with a depression at the upstream end. Stepping anywhere in the cleaned gravel with kill salmon eggs. They are typically 2-3 feet across, and 4-6 feet long, depending on species.
Remeber where you have seen them, many times that is the only way to tell where they are later. On streams that are marked, often you will see flagging in the overhanging trees or on a stake in the streambed.
Good luck, and take care.
Rob
Right after a redd is constructed it is a oval of cleaned gravel, usually with a depression at the upstream end. Stepping anywhere in the cleaned gravel with kill salmon eggs. They are typically 2-3 feet across, and 4-6 feet long, depending on species.
Remeber where you have seen them, many times that is the only way to tell where they are later. On streams that are marked, often you will see flagging in the overhanging trees or on a stake in the streambed.
Good luck, and take care.
Rob
It so happens that I was just this past hour out looking at some salmon redds, watching some pinks and coho spawning in a small tributary to the Snoqualmie. In extremely clear water less than a couple feet deep, standing on a high bank, watching the fish actively working their redds, with several "experts" on hand, the redds are pretty subtle and hard to spot. I can't imagine your average angler up to his crotch in cold water, concentrating on the timing of his double haul, is going to see more than he steps in, especially in a big pink year like this one. (And that includes myself, who's had the benefit of "expert" training.) Then again, it's not like you'll be crushing eggs with every other step, or that all things considered, the salmon's biggest problem is wading boots.
I'm not exactly sure where I am on this. I guess I'd have to agree with Sparse. If you're really worried about it, stay off the spawning gravel. And which is the spawning gravel you ask? That would be the gravel under the water. I don't know how else to "responsibly" answer that question. Whether that means you shouldn't fish in the fall, I honestly don't know.
The questions of whether redds can stand a little walking on, or whether our salmon populations can spare a redd or two, are not entirely black and white. It depends on the fish, their current status, and the river you're fishing in. So again, if you really care, take the time to educate yourself about the river you're fishing and the fish populations in that river. But if you're the better safe than sorry type, fish from the bank I guess.
I'm not exactly sure where I am on this. I guess I'd have to agree with Sparse. If you're really worried about it, stay off the spawning gravel. And which is the spawning gravel you ask? That would be the gravel under the water. I don't know how else to "responsibly" answer that question. Whether that means you shouldn't fish in the fall, I honestly don't know.
The questions of whether redds can stand a little walking on, or whether our salmon populations can spare a redd or two, are not entirely black and white. It depends on the fish, their current status, and the river you're fishing in. So again, if you really care, take the time to educate yourself about the river you're fishing and the fish populations in that river. But if you're the better safe than sorry type, fish from the bank I guess.
If you are wading in rocks so big that you are almost falling in the river with every step you are probably not wading on redds. If your are not wading in rocks so big that you are almost falling in the river with every step you are probably wading on redds.
I'm not an expert at any length. But from what I have seen is the they tend to spawn in the pea sized gravel and like the other one said. In tail outs and slack water out. If you are wading on rocks bigger that 2" you are not on any redds. I watched them also in the N/F Stilly and have so far stayed off of most that I have seen. They also stay out of the sandy areas as sand will choke out any eggs laid there.
Jim
Edit: I was also on the Snoqualmie this morning trying out my Spey fishing with Matt. The river is not to high but it is dirty from the Tolt down. We fish up off the David Powell Rd. No luck as usual. Guess I have to much shark repellant on my waders.
Jim
Jim
Edit: I was also on the Snoqualmie this morning trying out my Spey fishing with Matt. The river is not to high but it is dirty from the Tolt down. We fish up off the David Powell Rd. No luck as usual. Guess I have to much shark repellant on my waders.
Jim
Jim,
I would agree with you except for chinook and chum salmon. Both are large powerful fish and can move rocks bigger then 2 inches.
Chinook will spawn out in the main channel so the chances of wading on their redds are slimer then other salmon. Also chinook redds are huge. 5 to 10 feet wide and as long as 20 to 30 feet. Chum on the other hand will spawn in water only a few inches deep and move some fairly large size rocks to spawn. These are the redds we need to watch out for the most.
I would agree with you except for chinook and chum salmon. Both are large powerful fish and can move rocks bigger then 2 inches.
Chinook will spawn out in the main channel so the chances of wading on their redds are slimer then other salmon. Also chinook redds are huge. 5 to 10 feet wide and as long as 20 to 30 feet. Chum on the other hand will spawn in water only a few inches deep and move some fairly large size rocks to spawn. These are the redds we need to watch out for the most.
Thanks, guys. It sounds like this is not a clear-cut issue, but with some selective wading unnecessary damage can be avoided.
Yeah I should not of said pea sized gravel. I know what and where they spawn as I've watched Chum spawn. But what I can't figure out is the all these salmon in these rivers,all seem to spawn in the same places. The chums are spawning in the same gravel that the Humpies spawned in. So what does it do to the fish eggs that spawned before them?
Jim
Jim
What about the OP??
For this OP trip, can anyone give some suggestion as to the proper way to handle this issue on rivers such as the HOH?? The Clearwater in Idaho is the closest I have come to wading on water with redds (that I know of anyways) and this is a fairly virgin issue to me?
Thanks
~Patrick ><>
For this OP trip, can anyone give some suggestion as to the proper way to handle this issue on rivers such as the HOH?? The Clearwater in Idaho is the closest I have come to wading on water with redds (that I know of anyways) and this is a fairly virgin issue to me?
Thanks
~Patrick ><>
Jim,
You are starting to ask question that I am not able to answer. All very good questions I might add.
I was able to spend some time a few weeks ago talking to one of the biologist that works for Seattle City Light. Needless to say a very informative conversation. The question of fish spawning on top of other fish redds did come up. As near as I can remember Chums will spawn on top of silver and humpy redds but not nearly as much as silver and humpies will spawn on top of thier own redds. Our conversation center on huge runs like the humpy run that just occured in the Skagit. With so many fish and a finite amount of spawning areas the fish have no choice but to spawn on top of each other. This is what the biologist was more concerned about. The same species had a bigger impact then different species spawning over another's redds. He said it that different salmon did in fact spawn over each other redds but there was enough of a difference in the areas that each species spawned in that it really didn't have much impact.
Now, this is what I remember from a conversation that took place several weeks ago and I am starting to get up there in years so I might have remebered the talk a little different then what was really said. If I have got some of this wrong please be kind to me. My mind is not what it used to be
You are starting to ask question that I am not able to answer. All very good questions I might add.
I was able to spend some time a few weeks ago talking to one of the biologist that works for Seattle City Light. Needless to say a very informative conversation. The question of fish spawning on top of other fish redds did come up. As near as I can remember Chums will spawn on top of silver and humpy redds but not nearly as much as silver and humpies will spawn on top of thier own redds. Our conversation center on huge runs like the humpy run that just occured in the Skagit. With so many fish and a finite amount of spawning areas the fish have no choice but to spawn on top of each other. This is what the biologist was more concerned about. The same species had a bigger impact then different species spawning over another's redds. He said it that different salmon did in fact spawn over each other redds but there was enough of a difference in the areas that each species spawned in that it really didn't have much impact.
Now, this is what I remember from a conversation that took place several weeks ago and I am starting to get up there in years so I might have remebered the talk a little different then what was really said. If I have got some of this wrong please be kind to me. My mind is not what it used to be
What about the OP??
Chinook use generally larger gravel in deeper water in the tails of pools as well as heads and tails of riffles.
Chum use gravel in the 1-3 inch range usually in tails of pools as well, but they are found in small trubs and side channels as well.
Pink, use whereever they can find, and use large gravel and small gravel with a preference for 2 inch gravel, but they will not dig as much, just clean off the rocks a bit.
Silvers usually use small tributaries for spawning and small gravel (.5-2 inches for spawning.(same for bull trout)
Steelhead use some tribs and small areas, but generally make big redds near to where kings will, but in a little bit shallower water (closer to the tailout of a pool)
when fresh, redds are easily identifiable as a claerly disturbed area in the gravel on the bottom, ranging from a 1 foot diameter to a 5 foot diameter (usually longer rather than wider). The rocks will be cleaner than those around them. This will last for a period of time until they get recovered in slime (during the summer), or until a high water cleans other rocks, and removes signs of the depression in the gravel (i. e. what just happened). This will have undoubtedly hurt many redds, but by no means all. It is also noteworthy that even when you can't see a redd, as is the case now with some of the old pink redds, doesn't mean they aren't there.
-when wading-
-look around at the bottom
-look for fish actively spawning, and take notice of the areas they are using
- as you step down through pool, the tailout is usually shallower anyway, so you won't need to wade as deep- so step out before you get to the shallow area that is used for spawning.
-Don't wade when you don't have to, and don't fish tailouts filled with spawners, or wade through them, you will disturb spawners and step on redds.
hope this helps.
-Thomas
:thumb
Chinook use generally larger gravel in deeper water in the tails of pools as well as heads and tails of riffles.
Chum use gravel in the 1-3 inch range usually in tails of pools as well, but they are found in small trubs and side channels as well.
Pink, use whereever they can find, and use large gravel and small gravel with a preference for 2 inch gravel, but they will not dig as much, just clean off the rocks a bit.
Silvers usually use small tributaries for spawning and small gravel (.5-2 inches for spawning.(same for bull trout)
Steelhead use some tribs and small areas, but generally make big redds near to where kings will, but in a little bit shallower water (closer to the tailout of a pool)
when fresh, redds are easily identifiable as a claerly disturbed area in the gravel on the bottom, ranging from a 1 foot diameter to a 5 foot diameter (usually longer rather than wider). The rocks will be cleaner than those around them. This will last for a period of time until they get recovered in slime (during the summer), or until a high water cleans other rocks, and removes signs of the depression in the gravel (i. e. what just happened). This will have undoubtedly hurt many redds, but by no means all. It is also noteworthy that even when you can't see a redd, as is the case now with some of the old pink redds, doesn't mean they aren't there.
-when wading-
-look around at the bottom
-look for fish actively spawning, and take notice of the areas they are using
- as you step down through pool, the tailout is usually shallower anyway, so you won't need to wade as deep- so step out before you get to the shallow area that is used for spawning.
-Don't wade when you don't have to, and don't fish tailouts filled with spawners, or wade through them, you will disturb spawners and step on redds.
hope this helps.
-Thomas
:thumb
Another aspect of where fish dig redds is where in the river system. In general, chum and humpies prefer to be lower in the river for spawning. Silvers take the middle section, and kings travel the farthest. Steelhead use the middle and upper sections.
So there is overlap, but not as much as one might be concerned about.
The other issue is that the deepest diggers are Kings, and then chum, coho and steelhead, then pinks. The kings eggs are protected by depth when the coho and steelhead dig on top.
So there is overlap, but not as much as one might be concerned about.
The other issue is that the deepest diggers are Kings, and then chum, coho and steelhead, then pinks. The kings eggs are protected by depth when the coho and steelhead dig on top.
What about the OP??
I've seen coho and pinks spawning in the highest tribs. Kings tend to stay in the main channel. Steelehad seem to have the most variability- from the farthest reaching tribs in winter, to the main stem lower rivers.
I've seen coho and pinks spawning in the highest tribs. Kings tend to stay in the main channel. Steelehad seem to have the most variability- from the farthest reaching tribs in winter, to the main stem lower rivers.
What about the OP??
I've seen big kings way up on some very small streams in the headwaters of the chehalis system. Truly amazing that they can get over, under, though some obsticles that you would swear were impossible... I think most salmon, trout, steelhead are desiged to spawn from the main channels on the lower river all the way up to the headwaters. The thing that stumps me is how do they decide which ones will stay down below and which ones will keep going until they can't possibly go any farter??
So why is it a big issue if more than one fish uses the same redd? Is it that they dig up the already deposited eggs? Is this really damaging them or just displacing them so they settle a little farther down stream (assuming there is sutible gravel\rock where they settle).
.
I've seen big kings way up on some very small streams in the headwaters of the chehalis system. Truly amazing that they can get over, under, though some obsticles that you would swear were impossible... I think most salmon, trout, steelhead are desiged to spawn from the main channels on the lower river all the way up to the headwaters. The thing that stumps me is how do they decide which ones will stay down below and which ones will keep going until they can't possibly go any farter??
So why is it a big issue if more than one fish uses the same redd? Is it that they dig up the already deposited eggs? Is this really damaging them or just displacing them so they settle a little farther down stream (assuming there is sutible gravel\rock where they settle).
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