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that's His Lordship, to you.....
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Yesterday in our paper was an article on a proposal from the state transportation work group to "pilot" a program installing GPS units in cars so they can stick on a 2.4cents/mile "road use" tax. Apparently Oregon and California are trying this. And of course, where these losers go, we as a state must follow! The whine is, thanks to higher mileage standards, there isn't enough gas tax to get the "job" done (fancy that!). So the workgroup is looking for GPS "volunteers" so they can work out how to come up with more money. Considering we ALL drive to fish somewhere this does affect us, so I have some suggestions for these folks:
First, if your claim that the gas tax revenue isn't coming in like it needs to thanks to the higher mileage standards of today, DAMN!! Do you think maybe you should have accomodated this situation? Maaaaaaby you might consider raising it a smidgen?? It's NOT like mileage magically increased all of a sudden!

Second, since politicians are whining about the fact that these electric cars don't pay any gas tax (well DUH! Whodathunkit!!) and aren't paying their fair share for using the road, they're in a quandry how to get them to do so! Here's a thought: stick an additional amount on the annual registration for these things.

Finally, my thoughts for our politicians in the statehouse, whose "workgroup" appears composed entirely of the most absolutely fucking DIMWITS the state has to offer on the "situation". Learn to look ahead further than the next fundraiser; you want a "pilot group" to experiment with this? How about the electric car owners? You can hit two birds with one rock here, by getting them to pony up their share AND run your little "experiment".

And raise the gas tax a little, hmmmm???? Oh, and stop dipping into the gas taxes for your other projects?

I'm trying desperately to refrain from slipping completely into Master Chief-speak here, but it seems to me, that our illustrious "politicians" could come up with a little foresight; do a little planning like...you know...for the future maybe?? But I'm probably hoping against hope here...most of these mouth-breathers appear so absolutely STUPID that if brains were transmuted into a nuclear weapon, they couldn't gather enough to fart.:mad:
 

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The whine is, thanks to higher mileage standards, there isn't enough gas tax to get the "job" done (fancy that!). So the workgroup is looking for GPS "volunteers" so they can work out how to come up with more money.
Unintended (or unforeseen) consequences. The moral to this and like stories and proposals is that government is hopelessly hooked on our tax base like a crack addict. Why not just simply raise the gas tax? It gets them to the same end goal and without adding yet another component, cost (probably kick-back) to the GPS industry. Oh wait, being able to track not only your road miles but where you go and when... nothing to see here. I've said it before that WA and OR are in a race to see who can be most like Kalifornia.
 

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I know some people who think this is brilliant, tax those who use the roads. Why should bicyclist Joe pay? Why should Sally Joe Rail rider pay? .....Well then why should some pay taxes for SAM, city parks, public schools, etc, if they dont use them. I don't like this. Regardles of how many people believe everyone should use van pools, rail and other public transit, it is not possible. Some need a car/truck for their business, some need to carry x amount of equipment, others have second jobs and public transportation doesn't accomadate them. I don't like it when someone looks down their nose at you because you don't use the bus, they try to convince you that it would be better for you...No it is not for ME! As for our Politicians....they are not pro-active but rather reactionary, but by then the damage has been done..$$$$$$$$
 

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Just an Old Man
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Ever driven in Chicago. It's a toll road nightmare. They have these little boxes that you have in your cars to catch the tolls where ever you drive. Tourists pay at all the booths. Residents fly down the freeway and the little box in the front window catches your toll. My Son lives there and he gave me one of those boxes so I wouldn't have to stop and every toll booth.

But they are always improving the freeways. Those tolls pay for the improvements. I 90 tolls start at the Wisc boarder and end up in Indiana some place.
 

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Regardles of how many people believe everyone should use van pools, rail and other public transit, it is not possible. Some need a car/truck for their business, some need to carry x amount of equipment, others have second jobs and public transportation doesn't accomadate them. I don't like it when someone looks down their nose at you because you don't use the bus, they try to convince you that it would be better for you...No it is not for ME!
It is clear they just need a little more time with you ;).
 

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that's His Lordship, to you.....
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
There's no such thing as "public" transportation here, and for those effete snobs who "only" use public trans, guess what? How do you think your food, clothing, housewares and all the other shit you buy gets to the stores? It sure as hell ain't by bus! So no matter what, we ALL use the roads. But I have to say, here I'm agreeing with FSA about the "gubmint" using GPS to track my movements-the first little toady who tries to put that thing on somebody's car out here will not like the reception he'll receive.
 

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Well, what do you know, it's 2016, life is complex and expensive at the top, and that's a reality many can't get on board with.

The gas tax has been raised, many times. The last time I spoke to our lobbyist, he shared that he didn't think there would be any more raises there as it simply wasn't covering the gap as a couple of you have also stated.

government is hopelessly hooked on our tax base like a crack addict.
Says someone that is hopeless hooked on the services his government provides.

I know some people who think this is brilliant,
Not brilliant, but it's something. There is really nothing stopping you from getting involved in the process and sharing your ideas if you feel inclined. The discussion has been going on for years in Olympia...

tax those who use the roads. Why should bicyclist Joe pay?
I love cycling, and when we lived in the city, rode every chance I could. I still had a car, and payed the same taxes as everyone else. Moot point for the most part.

In general, I guess I'm not sure how you guys think the roads and bridges, and mass transit will be built, and maintained, at this point this thread just reads like uninformed, uninvolved oldsters having a winge.
 

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Tax the rural farmers, great. You guys in Rosalia or Davenport..and 30 miles in each way..heck..you hard working folk in Sprague and outlying areas, your Big Mac trips will now coast about $20 a patty on that super-size run.

Yet, Ferrari stud in Medina asks for more free ketchup.. more money freed up.
 

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I saw this proposal in the World and it pissed me off too. I'm not sure that improved fuel efficiency is cutting revenue as much as falling gas prices; $2.47/gallon here in Ephrata. I guess the part that pisses me off the most is it seems that those of us who choose (yes, choose) to live on this side of the mountains, where distances increase dramatically when you go shopping, the doctor, to a movie, fishing, whatever.... will end up paying more than folks that can drive six blocks to Freddies (51 miles for me, one way). I would just LOVE to downsize the government of this state.

Thanks for getting my BP up there Master Chief! :rolleyes:

And yeah, uninformed whiney oldster. lmpht
 

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Buenos Hatches Ese
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I know some people who think this is brilliant, tax those who use the roads. Why should bicyclist Joe pay? Why should Sally Joe Rail rider pay? .....Well then why should some pay taxes for SAM, city parks, public schools, etc, if they dont use them. I don't like this. Regardles of how many people believe everyone should use van pools, rail and other public transit, it is not possible. Some need a car/truck for their business, some need to carry x amount of equipment, others have second jobs and public transportation doesn't accomadate them. I don't like it when someone looks down their nose at you because you don't use the bus, they try to convince you that it would be better for you...No it is not for ME! As for our Politicians....they are not pro-active but rather reactionary, but by then the damage has been done..$$$$$$$$
So you think it's an attempt to get you to stop driving? It would generate zero tax revenue if everyone stopped driving, so I'm pretty sure that isn't the state's intention....
 

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A per mile road use tax sorta' makes sense in a user fee and pay-to-play sense, assuming that all vehicles cause the same amount of wear and tear on roads. They don't. Large heavy vehicles cause more wear than small lighter weight vehicles. Large vehicles generally use more fuel than small ones, so the existing state and federal gas tax makes good sense.

If the current gas tax revenue stream isn't enough to maintain and expand the state's road system, it makes more sense (to me) to raise the gas tax. The gas tax is efficient to collect and comes to the state at approximately the rate roads (and fuel) are used. A per mile road use tax looks to be less efficient, with higher administrative costs - a factor that government seems to seldom consider - and it's pretty clearly a 4th Amendment invasion of privacy. The proposal should be DOA.

As for electric cars, some other method of road tax is needed. Currently WA charges $100 a year for electrics, last I heard.

Sg
 

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Washington has the second highest gasoline tax in the nation. Seattle is in the top 10 of worst traffic in the nation.

So how does this potential change improve that? The tax is for mileage. Being stuck in traffic does not increase the number of miles driven. The state could actually lose money since more gas will be used just sitting in traffic...

I can understand (maybe) the thinking that with the many hybrids on the road that they are not paying their 'fair share' but at the same time the carbon footprint is much better which is an added benefit for all. But hybrids are only about 10% of the vehicles on the road so is taxing them the answer?

Maybe there should be a tax on vehicles with studded tires since they have a more detrimental affect on the roads?

How about paying a fee to not having the government watch our travels via GPS?
 

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BigDog
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Figuring out how to tax highway use is complicated, despite the best efforts of both politicians and anti-tax advocates to simplify it. Providing adequate transportation options to a large and complicated state, with dense populations in some areas and extremely sparse populations in others makes it so. Costs for construction and maintenance have to come from somewhere and for the most part, people and governments agree it should be borne largely by users (although we pay at the grocery store, too, for the cost of moving goods to market over those roads).

As Salmo said, impact is a function of miles AND weight of vehicles, hence special taxes on large commercial vehicles. The two options most often considered are a flat tax per gallon and the recent suggestion of a per-mile tax. I've always thought that having the tax be some sort of sliding, inverse percent, rather than per gallon tax might help achieve both the beneficial effect of keeping revenues up when gas prices drop (a higher percent tax when prices go down), as well as moderating the impact when prices are high, AND helping to even out excess consumption of fossil fuels (and purchasing of gas-guzzling vehicles) when prices are low. In either event, in my opinion, we pay way too little in gas taxes. Try going just about anywhere else on earth to see how cheap we have it here.

An alternative would be to develop a realistic carbon tax designed to accommodate both gas guzzling and electricity consuming vehicles. Ideally it would drop for electric/hybrid vehicles as our electricity sources continue to shift towards renewables, but not reach zero, because they still create demand for and impact maintenance of highways (since electric and hybrid vehicles typically are much lighter than others, their impact is reduced).

Of course, here in the PNW, we would also need to include a "salmon tax" for electric vehicles to somehow account for the negative impact of hydropower on our fisheries (a factor too little considered by renewable energy advocates who embrace hydropower).

D
 
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