[Shawn Seeger]

Well, I make my own deep water leaders and indicators.

I have found through burnt and cut fingers that it is better to utilize heavier leader in the top two sections since I had strip/retrieve. Like others have said I use fluorocarbon.

14 ld - 8'
14 lb - 4'
10 lb - 3'
8 lb - 3' (the knot here allows for a split shot to be added 2' above the top fly)
6 lb - 2'
4 or 6 lb - 18" - 22" between the top and bottom fly

These are my preferred lengths and sections...

Also, here is how I make my own indicators... The size of "corkie" used is dependent on the wind condition. I cut and sand the top/bottom with my dremel. Then I hand drill with a 1/4 inch bit through the corkie. I use a 1/4 OD Polyethylene fluid tube, cut to length with razor blade. This tube is glued in with zap-a-gap. If you can't find a tapered peg, I used to make (still do when I lose the tapered pegs) with a 1/8 OD Pneumatic tube (napa) (I take a piece of the Polyethylene to the store to check clearance of the Pneumatic tube). Then I cut the Pneumatic tube and with a lighter slowly heat one end of the tube and it will slowly roll back and then I push it flat (this provides the lip needed to stop the peg from sliding through the indicator).

 

[ronbow]

I like nylon tapered leader on top, thicker line is easier to peg without losing on my usually errant casts, and nylon floats, so easier to keep a very straight line to the indicator, a must. Triple surgeons knot to Seaguar 10# as needed for depth, to either a swivel or a tippet ring to which the two flies are tied. The ring also avoids loss of pegs in case one of those bad boys breaks off, or there is operator knot error....

 

[Buzzy]

@wanative - a couple points of order that occurred while reading through other posts in this thread. In this state two flies are legal, in this state on fly fishing only water you can't add weight (split shot) to your leader but two flies are still legal. In BC you don't need a two pole endorsement but only one fly per rod (per leader). Two flies on your leader in BC is called "$150 cocktail" if you're caught.

 

[Triggw]

Those look cool and they sound very versatile. What are the costs? The ones I buy are $0.25 each.

I've got 3 or 4 of them in my gear bag, and they've been there for several years. They rarely break, so the cost is insignificant. I tend to use the large, because they're easier to see when it gets choppy, but I know people that prefer the medium on the theory that the fish would feel less resistance on the take.

The real advantage of the Plumbobber is that the force required to cause the release isn't dependent on how tightly you set the peg (there is no peg), so release is very consistent. And the loop the leader goes through is large enough that it's rare for it to hang up on the line or leader. It does usually release if you set up hard on a strike and miss it, so you have to reset. I've suggested to the Plumbobber originator that we need a remotely controlled bobber that only releases when you push a button on the remote, but so far no joy on this.

 

[wanative]

Well, I make my own deep water leaders and indicators.

I have found through burnt and cut fingers that it is better to utilize heavier leader in the top two sections since I had strip/retrieve. Like others have said I use fluorocarbon.

14 ld - 8'
14 lb - 4'
10 lb - 3'
8 lb - 3' (the knot here allows for a split shot to be added 2' above the top fly)
6 lb - 2'
4 or 6 lb - 18" - 22" between the top and bottom fly

These are my preferred lengths and sections...

View attachment 231597

Also, here is how I make my own indicators... The size of "corkie" used is dependent on the wind condition. I cut and sand the top/bottom with my dremel. Then I hand drill with a 1/4 inch bit through the corkie. I use a 1/4 OD Polyethylene fluid tube, cut to length with razor blade. This tube is glued in with zap-a-gap. If you can't find a tapered peg, I used to make (still do when I lose the tapered pegs) with a 1/8 OD Pneumatic tube (napa) (I take a piece of the Polyethylene to the store to check clearance of the Pneumatic tube). Then I cut the Pneumatic tube and with a lighter slowly heat one end of the tube and it will slowly roll back and then I push it flat (this provides the lip needed to stop the peg from sliding through the indicator).

View attachment 231598

Thanks for sharing. Great information.

 

[Chris Johnson]

If I'm fishing 30' of water I'm using a full sinking line. For an indicator leader I'll have a short but section of heavy line then straight 10# fluoro, tippet ring and 6# fuoro tippet.

 

[Philonius]

I'm planning to put some time into figuring this game out too, so thanks for the info everyone. I assume most of the content is already out there in various threads, but it's laborious sifting through everything. I do remember @Irafly showing us his preferred indicators somewhere back in the archives. Care to do so again?

 

[MGTom]

OK, so I got a question. Forever when I tie a tapered leader I use .022 30# for 6wt and 25# for 4wt butts, then taper. It seems all these long leaders have smaller butts. I would think it would be less cast-able. Is this where I'm going wrong? I struggle at 12'-15' leaders tangling once I add an indicator (some of that is just my casting I'm sure, only been hard at it again for 2yrs, practice).. I've been trying wrap on foam and rio kahunas, which are more manageable for me, but big yarn or thingamabobbers just mess me up. Do you put the indicator at the end of your fly line, or peg it against a knot in the leader? If I get it past the 15# section I really get a mess, especially multi-fly rigs.

 

[Smalma]

Relevantly new to this new fangled "indicator fish but after a couple seasons of experimentation for a leader I start with 18 inches of 30# maximum green knotted to a main section of8 to 12 feet of 20# fluorocarbon ending in either a loop or small swivel (#14) to which I knotted 4 to 6 feet of 8 or 5# fluorocarbon where I normally space two flies.

I settled on that heavier main section for a couple reasons; 1) its good for extended use; essentially that is a permanent section, 2) that heavier leader is much easier to deal with when I throw a snarl (typically a daily occurrence) and 3) it felt like that the heavier leader sank quicker. In fact in a comparison between 20# and 6# fluorocarbon the heavy leader broke the surface tension quicker and once sub-surface looked to sink roughly 1/3 faster.

Have been experimenting with various methods of rigging multiple (2) flies. Am wondering what methods our experts recommend? Currently I divide the section below the swivel in half knotting the two sections together with a double or triple surgeon knot. I knot a short piece (4 to 6 inches) of 6# leader around the leader between the swivel and the middle leader knot. Attach the upper fly to that short leader piece and slide down to the middle knot and of course tie on the bottom fly normal (fixed loop).

Curt

 

[20930]

Well, I make my own deep water leaders and indicators.

I have found through burnt and cut fingers that it is better to utilize heavier leader in the top two sections since I had strip/retrieve. Like others have said I use fluorocarbon.

14 ld - 8'
14 lb - 4'
10 lb - 3'
8 lb - 3' (the knot here allows for a split shot to be added 2' above the top fly)
6 lb - 2'
4 or 6 lb - 18" - 22" between the top and bottom fly

These are my preferred lengths and sections...

View attachment 231597

Also, here is how I make my own indicators... The size of "corkie" used is dependent on the wind condition. I cut and sand the top/bottom with my dremel. Then I hand drill with a 1/4 inch bit through the corkie. I use a 1/4 OD Polyethylene fluid tube, cut to length with razor blade. This tube is glued in with zap-a-gap. If you can't find a tapered peg, I used to make (still do when I lose the tapered pegs) with a 1/8 OD Pneumatic tube (napa) (I take a piece of the Polyethylene to the store to check clearance of the Pneumatic tube). Then I cut the Pneumatic tube and with a lighter slowly heat one end of the tube and it will slowly roll back and then I push it flat (this provides the lip needed to stop the peg from sliding through the indicator).

View attachment 231598

I too "make my own" but I use the styrofoam indicators over corkies, they are much lighter, so they are easy to cast, requiring less effort to turn it all over gracefully....
I drill mine out and using two part epoxy, I glue 1/4" clear plastic tubing in as a liner.....they last and last...I too drill out my peg a bit.....
Another benefit to this system is that the peg sticks out quite a bit and if on occasion it doesn't release it can be easily released with one hand
As for deep water ( 20 ft. range) leader.....16' straight 10# InvisX flouro, t#12 barrel swivel and a 5 ft. Trout Hunter 4x ( 7#) tippet....

 

[zen leecher aka bill w]

@wanative - a couple points of order that occurred while reading through other posts in this thread. In this state two flies are legal, in this state on fly fishing only water you can't add weight (split shot) to your leader but two flies are still legal. In BC you don't need a two pole endorsement but only one fly per rod (per leader). Two flies on your leader in BC is called "$150 cocktail" if you're caught.

I used two flies up in BC on a couple of trips. It wasn't a ticket that stopped me of doing this. It was when using a tandem mega-dragon fly nymph pair and a fish rammed the upper fly deep into my finger and then broke the "tippet" off. I was about 200 miles (read that: 320 k if canadian) from the nearest hook removal facility. Luckily this was about 2 weeks after I started punching down barbs. Immediately after this I went back to a single fly.

 

[MGTom]

I see something! I've never had enough leader out, but you need to get the float moved so you can land a fish. That's how deep I want to be in the reservoir. I find a sink tip or full sink tough to control for precise depth, and it often matter, only getting gets falling through the zone.
I tie droppers into leaders with the blood knots so they often gone by the time I find out what the fish want that day. I, also, like above, then use a short 6# piece with perfection loop placed over a knot, and recently I've also knotted a 3rd strand of bigger stuff into surgeons tippet knots, then use an upward tag, rarely tangles. I used to tie onto the hook bend, but really best for rivers for me. A friend just showed me he uses a fly instead of a tippet ring, big to rod, smaller to dropper.

 

[wanative]

I too "make my own" but I use the styrofoam indicators over corkies, they are much lighter, so they are easy to cast, requiring less effort to turn it all over gracefully....
I drill mine out and using two part epoxy, I glue 1/4" clear plastic tubing in as a liner.....they last and last...I too drill out my peg a bit.....
Another benefit to this system is that the peg sticks out quite a bit and if on occasion it doesn't release it can be easily released with one hand
As for deep water ( 20 ft. range) leader.....16' straight 10# InvisX flouro, t#12 barrel swivel and a 5 ft. Trout Hunter 4x ( 7#) tippet....

Where do you find the bulk materials to make these indicators?

 

[Triggw]

OK, so I got a question. Forever when I tie a tapered leader I use .022 30# for 6wt and 25# for 4wt butts, then taper. It seems all these long leaders have smaller butts. I would think it would be less cast-able. Is this where I'm going wrong? I struggle at 12'-15' leaders tangling once I add an indicator (some of that is just my casting I'm sure, only been hard at it again for 2yrs, practice).. I've been trying wrap on foam and rio kahunas, which are more manageable for me, but big yarn or thingamabobbers just mess me up. Do you put the indicator at the end of your fly line, or peg it against a knot in the leader? If I get it past the 15# section I really get a mess, especially multi-fly rigs.

Also, ref your later post...

@MGTom... Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you may not be completely tuned in to the discussion here (which did sorta start in the middle). Fishing deep water--up to 20 feet or more--in lakes is usually done by hanging flies under an indicator such that they're suspended just over the bottom. You've got to have a leader long enough to reach the depth you want (I.e. 16, 18, 20, whatever feet), then the key is to have a "slip bobber" (several kinds have been mentioned). You fix them on the leader at the point which hangs the flies at the desired depth, but when you tighten on a fish the bobber releases its grip on the leader and slides freely down so you can reel up the leader into the guides and land the fish.

While I see some use tapered leaders, it's not really required or even very useful. Many of us just use lengths of heavier tippet or similar material. (I use 15 lb Amnesia with some flouro attached for the last few feet. And yes, I have a small swivel down there to tie the flouro on to.) Depending on how much leader you have, you may set the bobber at various points up and down the leader to set the depth you need to achieve.

Casting these rigs is awkward with any kind of leader--tapered or not, but you usually don't have to cast very far. A long rod (my bobber rod is 9 1/2 feet) helps, but mostly it's a matter of learning to handle the rig efficiently without tangling things up.

Hope this helps, and again, forgive me if I'm underestimating your knowledge here.

 

[20930]

Where do you find the bulk materials to make these indicators?

Ebay.....bag of 100 for cheap less than $10....no pegs included
....there is a little hole that goes all the way thru and you can drill out in two or three steps to allow room for a 1/4" o.d. plastic sleeve to slip in.....with a little wiggle room for glue...
I use two part epoxy and I use my own pegs from using slip indicators for 15 years... btw these are 11/16" diameter.....I coat with Sally's to reflect more light

 

[MGTom]

Also, ref your later post...

@MGTom... Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you may not be completely tuned in to the discussion here (which did sorta start in the middle). Fishing deep water--up to 20 feet or more--in lakes is usually done by hanging flies under an indicator such that they're suspended just over the bottom. You've got to have a leader long enough to reach the depth you want (I.e. 16, 18, 20, whatever feet), then the key is to have a "slip bobber" (several kinds have been mentioned). You fix them on the leader at the point which hangs the flies at the desired depth, but when you tighten on a fish the bobber releases its grip on the leader and slides freely down so you can reel up the leader into the guides and land the fish.

While I see some use tapered leaders, it's not really required or even very useful. Many of us just use lengths of heavier tippet or similar material. (I use 15 lb Amnesia with some flouro attached for the last few feet. And yes, I have a small swivel down there to tie the flouro on to.) Depending on how much leader you have, you may set the bobber at various points up and down the leader to set the depth you need to achieve.

Casting these rigs is awkward with any kind of leader--tapered or not, but you usually don't have to cast very far. A long rod (my bobber rod is 9 1/2 feet) helps, but mostly it's a matter of learning to handle the rig efficiently without tangling things up.

Hope this helps, and again, forgive me if I'm underestimating your knowledge here.

It helps a lot, because I think this will solve many problems and leed to more fish, and that's why I've been so fascinated.. I've tried real distance casting with this and so on and figured out that would never work. My sly new plan is to try these rigs with the canoe, flip out and drift glide a-ways a bit. Getting the canoe clean and prepped is one of my "stay at home" projects. I fish slip/fixed bobbers for trout and steelhead a lot. I now am seeing how this is sort of an adaptation. I would have never thought of it but it's perfect for me. Thanks for really explaining the "release" part.

 

[Triggw]

... My sly new plan is to try these rigs with the canoe, flip out and drift glide a-ways a bit. ...

That could work. I've heard people say they flip them out and then row away from them (pontoon boat). But where I fish the wind is usually a factor, and you have to anchor or be blown around the lake or against the bank.

When casting, the main thing is to work the rig up to the surface by lifting the rod and sweeping it left and right. When the flies get to the surface they'll be in front of you and the rod will be high over your shoulder, so you make a roll cast to straighten them out in front. Then if you want more distance, you quickly--before they sink too much--lift the line into a back cast and shoot it out forward. Last year I went to an SA Anadro Nymph line on my bobber rod, and that has proven to help casting quite a bit.

At the same time, I've had fish take the fly when the bobber was directly beneath my rod tip. And I've even had fish take the leader out of my hand while it was dangling directly below the boat when I was setting the bobber.

 

[MGTom]

That could work. I've heard people say they flip them out and then row away from them (pontoon boat). But where I fish the wind is usually a factor, and you have to anchor or be blown around the lake or against the bank.

When casting, the main thing is to work the rig up to the surface by lifting the rod and sweeping it left and right. When the flies get to the surface they'll be in front of you and the rod will be high over your shoulder, so you make a roll cast to straighten them out in front. Then if you want more distance, you quickly--before they sink too much--lift the line into a back cast and shoot it out forward. Last year I went to an SA Anadro Nymph line on my bobber rod, and that has proven to help casting quite a bit.

At the same time, I've had fish take the fly when the bobber was directly beneath my rod tip. And I've even had fish take the leader out of my hand while it was dangling directly below the boat when I was setting the bobber.

This is making so much more sense now. Thanks again for the thread guys. I was looking to do a new 8wt/8.5' Powerhouse for smallmouth and figured I could also throw an indicator with it as well. All the rods indicated as indicator were long. I see why you thought I was lost. I was. I'd been working hard for many years and hadn't fished much, but now I'm back at it for about 2yrs., I'm dated in skills and terminology. But I knew this idea was what I was aiming at. The fish sit 3-8' off the bottom and a TDC kills 'em, but I got to keep it there, in 15-35' FOW, or no love.
Had a chance to watch some videos now that I know what's up. This is perfect. Thanks

 

[outahere2]

I too "make my own" but I use the styrofoam indicators over corkies, they are much lighter, so they are easy to cast, requiring less effort to turn it all over gracefully....
I drill mine out and using two part epoxy, I glue 1/4" clear plastic tubing in as a liner.....they last and last...I too drill out my peg a bit.....
Another benefit to this system is that the peg sticks out quite a bit and if on occasion it doesn't release it can be easily released with one hand
As for deep water ( 20 ft. range) leader.....16' straight 10# InvisX flouro, t#12 barrel swivel and a 5 ft. Trout Hunter 4x ( 7#) tippet....

I have just adapted a very similar system this year for my indicators. I find they pop much better with the insert and I can't see how I will ever wear them out.
I fish 30lb braid to a SWIVEL and then 3-5ft of 4lb or 6lb flour to my one chronie (BC).
I have tried playing with two flies but 99% of the fish are on the bottom fly so I just went back to fishing with the one fly.
I have a peg board with a selection of indicators and braid pre tied from 5ft -30 ft in length. I wrote the braid length on the indicator so I know how much braid is on each one.
You never know where the fish will be on any given day so it may take 5 minutes to switch over your gear to the right depth but after that you are good to go for the day.
Braid always hangs dead straight and has zero stretch. Braid must be cast very carefully as the knots are very difficult to get out if you get them. This system is not for everybody but I am convinced it catches me more fish than other systems I have used.
I am always amazed at how many ways people can come up with for fishing a fly that is essentially a bare hook and how important some of those variations can be for catching fish.

Most guys in BC fish a straight piece of their favorite flouro to a swivel (8lb and 10lb are commonly used) and then their favorite flouro tippet to the fly. As far as I can tell very few use tapered leaders. Heck you are generally fishing 30 ft and closer to the boat. I would say I catch most of my fish within 20ft of the boat. I fish my indicator right back to my rod tip.

 

[20930]

I have just adapted a very similar system this year for my indicators. I find they pop much better with the insert and I can't see how I will ever wear them out.
I fish 30lb braid to a SWIVEL and then 3-5ft of 4lb or 6lb flour to my one chronie (BC).
I have tried playing with two flies but 99% of the fish are on the bottom fly so I just went back to fishing with the one fly.
I have a peg board with a selection of indicators and braid pre tied from 5ft -30 ft in length. I wrote the braid length on the indicator so I know how much braid is on each one.
You never know where the fish will be on any given day so it may take 5 minutes to switch over your gear to the right depth but after that you are good to go for the day.
Braid always hangs dead straight and has zero stretch. Braid must be cast very carefully as the knots are very difficult to get out if you get them. This system is not for everybody but I am convinced it catches me more fish than other systems I have used.
I am always amazed at how many ways people can come up with for fishing a fly that is essentially a bare hook and how important some of those variations can be for catching fish.

Most guys in BC fish a straight piece of their favorite flouro to a swivel (8lb and 10lb are commonly used) and then their favorite flouro tippet to the fly. As far as I can tell very few use tapered leaders. Heck you are generally fishing 30 ft and closer to the boat. I would say I catch most of my fish within 20ft of the boat. I fish my indicator right back to my rod tip.

I tried using braid a few years ago and concluded it was too much trouble....I also know two or three others that gave up using it very quickly...Ten pound Seaguar to a barrel plus a weighted fly is simple and works very nicely......good luck with braid.....