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dead drifting into thread drift
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Apologies for the redundancy of the topic (it does show up a fair amount with the searches), but I'm hoping that there might be some fresh takes on it.

Point being, how many of you use two-handed in the salt, PS beaches, sandy coastal beaches, off the rocks, etc? What types of lines do you prefer? I'm basically looking for various ways to go easier on the shoulders and extend my fishing time, which is what got me thinking about it. Most of this will be on sandy beaches on the Oregon coast, so I'd assume that skagit casting would basically be out because of the dynamic wave action effing with the anchor.

Thanks!
Randy
 

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Well I have to say that switching over from SH to DH casting has helped reduce shoulder and wrist pain...

I am a newbie salt DH angler after 30 years of gear fishing in the salt...

I love my two handed rods for casting out sinking tips into the salt - beaches, jetties, bays, and soon from a boat...

Exclusively, I am a Skagit caster and use short heavy intermediate heads to launch full sinking tips (MOW) with a leader and a heavy fly.

The tough part of casting in the surf is the anchor and timing the surf. I cast using a snake roll or perry poke or single spey...

I currently use either my 8wt Redington Dually 13.5' or 9wt Cabella's graphite 14' when on the surf or fishing from jetties.

I also use a lighter 7wt switch rod (Redington Chromer) for the calm bays.

I am getting a 10wt two handed rod (Echo TR10150) 15' shortly which will be my go to Chinook rod for the salt in Vancouver, BC where I will be next month.
 

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Let me preface by saying two handed casting is very new to me but... I just strung up an 11' 4wt fiberglass switch rod with a 6wt OB short intermediate and its my new go to beach setup. One situation where I see this being most optimal would be winter time rezzies off the beach. The added distance on the cast should increase hookup numbers. As far as being easier on the shoulders. IDK man? Maybe its because lately I've mostly been fishing short little 2 and 4 wt FG rods but that 11 footer feels like a beast weight wise.
 

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I use double-handers almost exclusivly in the salt. Much easier on my arms. I prefer short rods of 11-11.5 feet; and own what are labelled as switch rods in 4-6 wt. I fish almost exclusively with floating scandi tapers and 15-18 foot leaders. I can easily cast overhead and the flies I use around Vancouver Island are relatively small, usually sizes 4-10. You can cast Skagits overhead, but you really have to reduce the weight. OPST also sells shorter lines that might work for you. In an ideal world, try to find one or two people with lots of lines that you can try. Once you have the type of line and the grain weight dialed in for your rod and casting style it will simplify shopping for you.
Some folks like using shooting lines and heads, other like "integrated lines" (I'm in the latter group). My favourite full fly line is a "Snowbee Switch line". There are some new tapers out now that I haven't tried so can't comment on everything. For me, the jury is still out regarding using heads in salt water, though I use them almost exclusively in fresh waters.
 

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My problem was bad elbows, and being new to the bug chucker type fishing, I was really not doing my body much good trying to learn how to use a single handed rod. I ended up with a high end 11' 6wt switch. Like you said it's not easy to set a anchor point when the water is moving all over the place. I ended up doing just a overhand cast, and found that a outbound short intermediate two line weights over the rod weight worked best for me. I went through a lot of different lines trying to fish the salt like a river, which didn't work for the type of fishing I was trying to do, that being Coho. Fishing a floating line off a beach with the rip 20 feet off shore with the water between you and the rip going one way the rip going the other way and then there's the wind to deal with. I even tried a Rio Outbound short WF8F/I, but even with a long strip set I never felt the hard set that really drives the hook home. From here it's all about timing.
 

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@Bagman has gotten pretty darn good with his two handed overhead cast. I've seen him land quite a few coho with thst rig.

@RedFive is the best I've seen on the beach with two handed spey casting. He's dialed in and a lot of fun to watch. Perhaps he'll chime in or maybe shoot him a PM
 

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dead drifting into thread drift
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
cool, thanks folks!


This is actually for my Echo glass 7wt switch (yeah yeah, tool for the job...blah blah blah). I took the only heavier integrated shooting sinking head I have at the moment (OBS 330gr S7 or 8) and a 3" clouser out to the park earlier and it actually worked very well with very little effort. I was able to cast the entire line (side wind) with a little effort, about 80' with much less effort. I tried into the wind and it was closer to 70' max. I feel like I could bump up to a 370 or 375gr head to get more of the springy/slingshot/power (for lack of a better term) out of the rod when it loads deep into the butt.

For the most part, my fishing takes place with something that gets down quick (typically fishing a 6 or 7wt with Teeny T-200. That usually does the trick but I'm certainly limited to buckets that are closer.
 

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Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
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I like the switch rods for swinging flies on the beaches. I have used a 5 weight for cutthroat, and six and seven weights for coho. ( Back when we had coho. :-/ ) I have also used spey rods on the beaches, from six weight through nine weight, up to 14 feet long.

The longer two-handed rods are useful in situations where you have tidal currents at optimum stages of tide for the location. We can fish those currents just as we would fish in river flows. The benefit of two-handed rods is in the balancing of casting work between hands. Just as in river fishing, it's easier most of the time.

I use floating lines, mono leaders, poly leaders, intermediate sink lines, and a wide range of sinking tips and shooting heads, as the circumstances dictate. But my basic approach is with a floating line.

Having the ability to spey cast, or overhead cast, allows for more versatility on the beaches. And you can do this with switch or true spey rods. If you are fishing in the surf, wading to a breakline, you can overhead cast, and shoot a heavier shooting head a country mile. You'll see this is now commonplace on the Atlantic Coast beaches today.

Depending upon the size of the fish, I might play it on the reel, and slide it to the edge of the beach, especially with larger fish. Or I might just stay in knee deep water, strip the line in, and manage the smaller fish and fly etc. It depends on the situation. An open Sandy beach will afford a safer landing for bigger fish, while a rocky shoreline will require more care in playing and landing. And it will be better to stay at least knee deep in the water. Once you get the knack for it, it is as simple as landing fish on a shorter single-handed rod.
http://olympicpeninsulaflyfishing.blogspot.com
 

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@Nick Clayton where have you been ?
Selling any of your fantastic salt flies ???
Haven't been around much do to a job working for a charter boat company that has me away from home for the summer.

Haven't been tying many flies, especially since there isn't much salmon fishing to speak of, but I have all my stuff with me. PM me what you're looking for and I might be able to come up with something
 

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cool, thanks folks!

This is actually for my Echo glass 7wt switch (yeah yeah, tool for the job...blah blah blah). I took the only heavier integrated shooting sinking head I have at the moment (OBS 330gr S7 or 8) and a 3" clouser out to the park earlier and it actually worked very well with very little effort. I was able to cast the entire line (side wind) with a little effort, about 80' with much less effort. I tried into the wind and it was closer to 70' max. I feel like I could bump up to a 370 or 375gr head to get more of the springy/slingshot/power (for lack of a better term) out of the rod when it loads deep into the butt.

For the most part, my fishing takes place with something that gets down quick (typically fishing a 6 or 7wt with Teeny T-200. That usually does the trick but I'm certainly limited to buckets that are closer.
Your Echo switch rod may be better suited by overlining the rod with a heavier switch line.
Echo rods tend to take more to load but when the correct line is matched, they are just the snappiest line haulers.
My single handed 8wt Echo rod is lined with 10wt integrated line and casts like a dream.

You may want to try a heavier line for your rod. I used an integrated head (Rio Switch Chucker) on a 7wt Rainshadow Batston RX7 switch rod....

I have the switch chucker line for sale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112026997812
 

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dead drifting into thread drift
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Your Echo switch rod may be better suited by overlining the rod with a heavier switch line.
Echo rods tend to take more to load but when the correct line is matched, they are just the snappiest line haulers.
My single handed 8wt Echo rod is lined with 10wt integrated line and casts like a dream.

You may want to try a heavier line for your rod. I used an integrated head (Rio Switch Chucker) on a 7wt Rainshadow Batston RX7 switch rod....

I have the switch chucker line for sale:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/112026997812
I'll try that out with what I currently have. Currently for spey casting I like it with a 420gr skagit short plus 10' of T-8 to T-14. I do really like the Chucker line for my single-hand nymphing needs (and it casts overhead really well when used like a shooting head), I just wish they made it with a full sinking head for what I need it out on the OR surf for.

Sounds like I have a little more experimenting to do with what I currently have to hopefully narrow things down before I go into full line-buying mode.
 

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Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
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Bob, what line do you like for the floating line "basic approach"? Do you use a head or whole line?
I have used spey lines, weight forward lines, double taper lines, and home made shooting heads, (using cut lengths of level diameter line, from double taper lines, and mono running line.) Out of all of them, I still like the old fashioned double tapers the best.
 

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I have used spey lines, weight forward lines, double taper lines, and home made shooting heads, (using cut lengths of level diameter line, from double taper lines, and mono running line.) Out of all of them, I still like the old fashioned double tapers the best.
Thanks, I think I have an old DT laying around somewhere, will have to try it out!
 

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Hey Randall, not sure if you're on the fence about an integrated line or not but if a loop to loop connection doesn't matter much to you, I would suggest you take a look at RIO's Scandi Short body. I can't figure out if they still make S3 or S4 density heads, but they used to. The full density will remove the need to use a tip if you're looking to keep your rig as simple as possible. In any case, they're 23 feet long so you don't have to wait as long on your back stroke as you would with an Outbound Short (30 ft head).

I don't know about you, but 7 more feet on a longer rod, especially with the recovery rate and flex of the ECHO glass (I fished the 6 weight switch last summer off the beach), can throw my overhead timing off quite a bit. That said, I don't overhead my two handers very often (only when salad in the water messes with my anchor) as I prefer to Skagit. Unless you're fishing an uber-calm day, I would say that your assumption is right about employing Skagit casts in the environment you're describing.

As far as other heads go, I have been working with the OPST Commandos for almost a year now and have messed around with overheading them, both on single and double-handed rods. I really like them, but feel that they're not really the jack of all trades that some people portray them to be. In my opinon, they are EXCELLENT at Skagit casts and OK with touch and go and overhead. In overhead mode, I felt like there was a lot of hinging going on at the tip/head junction. That was with MOW and straight T(x) tips. The only time I felt things smooth out was when using a 12ft Polyleader. Again, my opinion based on observations in the field.

OTOH, the RIO Scandi body is the closest thing I've seen come close to the feel of an Outbound/Outbound Short on a single handed rod. It might seem counter-intuitive, but in terms of overhead applications, I feel like there's bell-curve relationship between the length of a shooting head and the length of the rod you're throwing it with. For single hand (9 to 9.5 foot rods, specifically) , it seems the sweet spot is between 30 and 38ish feet. The head length/rod length ratio almost works in reverse when you bump up to 10.5 to 12 foot rods, which seem to like 18 to 25 foot heads (again, for overheading), paired with a scandi taper, i.e., weight in the back.

Anyway, maybe something to think about if you haven't already. PM if you want to talk more and nerd out on line length/taper/density/application theories and observations. Otherwise, good luck out there.

PS. @Nick Clayton -- appreciate the props. Maybe I'll see you out there during this year's short season if you can get away from work long enough.
 

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dead drifting into thread drift
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I got it out today. while it actually worked great on getting serious distance with very little effort, I do think you're onto something with shorter heads for overhead casting long rods. I often found myself using 25' of the head vs the entire 30'. The primary issue I had was detecting strikes and reacting quickly to them compared to my shorter rods (I'm usually fishing an 8'-8.5' rod out there). I'll play around with it quite a bit more but that's what I've noticed so far... the ease of achieving distance definitely makes for easier (and far less dangerous) wading as well.
 
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