Wading boots: Felt vs. Rubber soles?
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I agree with DocDoc that felt is better. I wear my rubber soles when I'm going in my drift boat and might do some wading, but if I am wading all day, I prefer the felt - my footing is more secure with the felt.
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If there aren't studs I don't want to put them on unless I am in someones drift boat.
I have a pair of korkers with the convertible sole option which I liked at first and then hated. I glued a set of felts in and user them when invited on a drift boat trip. The rubber soles provided are less than exceptable. For day to day fishing I have some Simms felt soles with studs. I hate to admit that I am getting older but I can not afford to take a fall. I want all the traction I can get! In the last 9 months I have had my feet slip out from underneath me and have broken ribs on either side of my chest on two different occasions. Ribs hurt but are better than hips, elbows and other body parts if you get banged up! Neither of these falls were wading related but were a wake-up call. Good footing traction is paramount!!
I have read and studied all the concerns about transferring invasive speciies from drainage to drainage by using felt. My take is that I will clean my boots when appropriate but I want the maximum traction I can get. I want to reduce the poseeibilities of a debilitating fall and crash and burn 2 or 3 miles from my rig and quite likely fishing by myself. So for me it is felt and studs. I have heard that some of the rubber is prety good but noone has said that it is as good or better than felt with studs.
Dave
I have a pair of korkers with the convertible sole option which I liked at first and then hated. I glued a set of felts in and user them when invited on a drift boat trip. The rubber soles provided are less than exceptable. For day to day fishing I have some Simms felt soles with studs. I hate to admit that I am getting older but I can not afford to take a fall. I want all the traction I can get! In the last 9 months I have had my feet slip out from underneath me and have broken ribs on either side of my chest on two different occasions. Ribs hurt but are better than hips, elbows and other body parts if you get banged up! Neither of these falls were wading related but were a wake-up call. Good footing traction is paramount!!
I have read and studied all the concerns about transferring invasive speciies from drainage to drainage by using felt. My take is that I will clean my boots when appropriate but I want the maximum traction I can get. I want to reduce the poseeibilities of a debilitating fall and crash and burn 2 or 3 miles from my rig and quite likely fishing by myself. So for me it is felt and studs. I have heard that some of the rubber is prety good but noone has said that it is as good or better than felt with studs.
Dave
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20,410 Posts
I have the Korkers Guide boots with studded KlingOn rubber soles. I think they grip great. I have the studded felts, the standard felts and the hiking soles. The traction of the studded KlingOn versus the studded felt is pretty darn comparable to me. I do have other felt soled boots that I use with or without studs and fish them in certain systems or conditions because they are a heavier and burlier boot but I have no issues with my Korkers Guide boots and I've got a bit more than two full years on them. I don't fish as much as many guys, but these serve me well.
I was using Korkers with the studded kling-on and just purchased a pair of Simms guide boots with the new stream tread soles yesterday and spent about 10 hours on the river in them and personally I like both of these soles better than felt. I think they grip just as well and with felt soles they always tend fill up with mud when I am hiking into the river which makes them lose a lot of there traction and this doesn't happen with these new soles.
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I've taken some pretty nasty spills while fishing, but none of them happened while wading. It was always on the WAY to a certain unreachable hole that I "just had to check out". So for me, if I found a sole that provided better traction on LAND, I'd probably switch. Felt soles have never been a problem in the water for me, but who knows what the streamtread would be like. I've got the Simms freestones in felt btw.
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Last fall I purchased new 2010 model Simms G4 boots with Vibram soles. The first time out without studs/cleats, they were a disaster. I'm a strong and experienced wader, but these things were like ice skates on teflon in the Yakima River's gentle late autumn flows. My experience was capped by falling while standing perfectly still in 3' of water in gentle flows. It was insane.
So I added Simms Star Cleats (note, not the studs, but the bigger cleats). After a few outings with those installed, grip is quite a bit better than naked rubber soles, but still only 80% of what I get with unstudded felt. You still experience moments of slip before the cleats engage, and this can be a bit unsettling. I think I'm going to try to add a few more cleats and re-arrange them all such that they are more on the outboard edges of the sole plus a few down the middle.
So I added Simms Star Cleats (note, not the studs, but the bigger cleats). After a few outings with those installed, grip is quite a bit better than naked rubber soles, but still only 80% of what I get with unstudded felt. You still experience moments of slip before the cleats engage, and this can be a bit unsettling. I think I'm going to try to add a few more cleats and re-arrange them all such that they are more on the outboard edges of the sole plus a few down the middle.
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I've only used felt, but am seriously considering rubber. I like the idea of Korkers interchangeables. I have only fallen once with my felt boots and it wasn't in the water. I was treading down a dirt trail on a wet day. The felt filled up with mud and provided even less traction than my bowling shoes.
The consideration of traction [or lack of] with Vibram or any rubber in the water is somewhat affected by temperature and weight [as I've been told]. Rubber like most materials will get harder in cold temps, and if the mix of binders are heavy the change of 10-15 degrees can make an eraser feel like a car tire. So, if the rubber gets harder you will need more weight to create traction. So a heavy guy in soft rubber should be getting the maximum traction.
But what do I know, I don't even own a pair.
The consideration of traction [or lack of] with Vibram or any rubber in the water is somewhat affected by temperature and weight [as I've been told]. Rubber like most materials will get harder in cold temps, and if the mix of binders are heavy the change of 10-15 degrees can make an eraser feel like a car tire. So, if the rubber gets harder you will need more weight to create traction. So a heavy guy in soft rubber should be getting the maximum traction.
But what do I know, I don't even own a pair.
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Mike, I'm sure temperature variations have some effect on grip of rubber soles, but that's splitting hairs. Bottom line (and I've heard this from many others too): You need to add metal to make them grip.
Of course, if you have a drift boat, and you don't want to tear up the bottom of your boat with tungsten studs on your boots....you're SOL. Or you need a second pair of cleatless boots for days spent in a boat.
Of course, if you have a drift boat, and you don't want to tear up the bottom of your boat with tungsten studs on your boots....you're SOL. Or you need a second pair of cleatless boots for days spent in a boat.
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I have had really bad luck with the rubber soles. I do much better with felt. With felt you need a full thickness of felt all the way around the edges of the boot, especially the toe. When the felt gets worn away at the tip of the toe, or if you buy boots that simply have no felt there (korkers), you will find you lose a ton of traction. Both felt and studs tend to wear quickly and unevenly, once they begin to wear you will notice a big reduction in traction, and with worn out studs lower back pain while wading becomes especially common. They are shoes after all, like good hiking boots or running shoes.
Jim
Jim
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I was told over the weekend that felt will not be allowed when fishng AK in 2 years.
True?
True?
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I've talked to plenty of anglers with the new rubber soles and have worn several myself. Basically, no one will tell you the rubber soles are better than felt. Some are pretty good and on not so slick rivers and in boats they're usually fine. I have found that the Simms Vibram soles with star cleats and studs is just about as good as felt and studs. Also, the Dan Bailey boots with studs are great too.
As much as we all like felt it's going to be a thing of the past soon. It is already outlawed in New Zealand, Maryland and will be in all of Alaska Jan. 1st, 2011. It will follow around the West in a few years I'm sure.
So if you fish out of boat, since everyone will be wearing studs with their rubber soles soon, you're going to have to put down rubber matting to save the floor. The good news is since we are going to be forced away from felt, as technology improves, someone will come up with a river safe compound that is better than felt. Think of it like digital photography. It started out as weak compared to film and now has far surpassed it in resolution and ease of use.
As much as we all like felt it's going to be a thing of the past soon. It is already outlawed in New Zealand, Maryland and will be in all of Alaska Jan. 1st, 2011. It will follow around the West in a few years I'm sure.
So if you fish out of boat, since everyone will be wearing studs with their rubber soles soon, you're going to have to put down rubber matting to save the floor. The good news is since we are going to be forced away from felt, as technology improves, someone will come up with a river safe compound that is better than felt. Think of it like digital photography. It started out as weak compared to film and now has far surpassed it in resolution and ease of use.
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I have posted a similar thread, after I purchased the "new" vibram soled boots. That first trip I slid around like I did as a kid in my rubber boots, it was aweful. I too agree that these boots are the future, but felt is way better at "sticking" to the bottom, than these studed vibram soles. I have had some varied success with the studed vibrams, I still slide around when fishing the green, but just get used to it. I too hope to be the one who invents the best yet soles, maybe that way I can be independantly wealthy and fish everyday instead of actually working a "real job". Atleast that's my dream.
JB
JB
I am using the Simms Vibram soles with the star cleats as well. With the current selection of rubber soles right now, I wouldn't wear any rubber sole boots with out studs. The star studs are nice. I like the rubber soles for hiking into fishing holes, especially when it's muddy. However, I'll keep my old felt guide boots for the boat for the time being.
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I'm surprised about two things:
1. Simms' marketing suggests that these Vibram soled boots are as good as felt. They're not. What's surprising to me is that this could open Simms up to lawsuits when someone inevitably falls and gets hurt. The remedy would be installing cleats in all boots as factory standard equipment. Yeah, the boat bottoms, I know, but as Brett points out that too is fixable.
2. As Brett suggests, better rubber compounds must surely be available or inventable to solve this issue. I wonder if Simms or other manufacturers have tried, for example, adding silica grit a-la sandpaper to the rubber in order to provide some friction. Seems like a simple solution, but maybe I'm missing something the Vibram/Simms people know that makes this infeasible.
1. Simms' marketing suggests that these Vibram soled boots are as good as felt. They're not. What's surprising to me is that this could open Simms up to lawsuits when someone inevitably falls and gets hurt. The remedy would be installing cleats in all boots as factory standard equipment. Yeah, the boat bottoms, I know, but as Brett points out that too is fixable.
2. As Brett suggests, better rubber compounds must surely be available or inventable to solve this issue. I wonder if Simms or other manufacturers have tried, for example, adding silica grit a-la sandpaper to the rubber in order to provide some friction. Seems like a simple solution, but maybe I'm missing something the Vibram/Simms people know that makes this infeasible.
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Lugan, I agree that discussing temperature is getting a bit too specific, but I think it is necessary as we are talking traction right? Way back when I used to rock climb, the tackiness of my shoes on cold mornings would clearly improve as the day warmed up. Though the rubber on my 5.10's were MUCH softer than wading boots. Maybe Simms needs to use a softer rubber with deeper lugs that are insanely siped.
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Very true Ed, and it wouldn't be cost effective to offer different shore ratings on the boots. I fear that when everyone has studs there will be an increase in damaged floats. Is Line-X stud proof? A misplaced step tearing down the side of a pontoon.
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I belive that the line-x sprayed on the decking of my big boy cataraft has seen studs and has held up just fine. I put a set of running boards on the tops of my tubes to allow a flat step, protect the tubes and mount stuff. These inflatables are really freaking stout.
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