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Washington state loses big legal battle over salmon culverts
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well....it is after all, the 9th circus...I wonder what would happen if Inslee just told them to fuck off. What would they do, jail him for comtempt? On the other hand, Inslee in a striped suit?,,,,,,,,,,Hmmmmmmmmm
adding a good dose of reality, considering the state can't fully fund the McCleary decision, if you add this demand on top of everything else, where they gonna find the money? B&O tax increases? Catch card increases, or overall license fee increases? They sure as hell won't find it in an income tax-that wet dream was already shot down what-five or six times? It's all about the bucks, isn't it!
adding a good dose of reality, considering the state can't fully fund the McCleary decision, if you add this demand on top of everything else, where they gonna find the money? B&O tax increases? Catch card increases, or overall license fee increases? They sure as hell won't find it in an income tax-that wet dream was already shot down what-five or six times? It's all about the bucks, isn't it!
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Classic description and it FITS!
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This is one of those things where I don't necessarily care about what effects this might have on our wallets and paychecks and licenses. If it takes the 9th circus to get the state to fix these culverts, so be it. If the state of WA had any kind of sense of responsibility, they'd have done it long ago. My only issue, and I'm not sure how much it bothers me as the years go on and fish continue to dwindle, is that there's going to be an increase in non-indigenous fishes in these re-culverted areas. But which would I rather have, fish that are not necessarily genetically native to a watershed, or no fish at all in the watershed?
Not just about the bucks. A lot of ethics involved in implementing a program that would have such wide-ranging effects.
Not just about the bucks. A lot of ethics involved in implementing a program that would have such wide-ranging effects.
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Considering the initial lawsuit was brought in 2001 and is now(?) resolved, it could of been accomplished for a lot less and we would of seen an improved fishery by now, hopefully... Wonders how much was spent by the state fighting this...
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Removing culvert will do nothing to restore salmon runs when 80% is caught in AK and CAN.
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We're at a time when every single fish that we can get back matters. There are many examples of smaller streams around the state that are under restoration, and have been for years, and some of these smaller waters are producing over a million juvenile salmonids every spring. In some cases the smaller streams, creeks and rivers, are producing more salmon, steelhead and trout than the big famous rivers. These impassable stream obstructions, failed culverts, etc., should have been repaired at the first sign of trouble. Now it has become a widespread problem, with terrible consequences. Do the right thing.
G
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·Well stated, the state tends to focus on big projects that bring in media attention when often the small projects produce more bang for the buck. Even the drainage ditchs near my home at one time produced salmon.
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While I agree with your premise, I can't help but say "yeah, but not so much that we'll begin shooting all those sea lions, and chasing out the Chinese & Russian factory salmon harvesters.......Start with the sea lions, and I'm not talking about shooting them with a tranq and "relocating" the bastards. any old .30 will do-right in the head.
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Nor do I disagree with the concept, but locations should be evaluated & prioritized. For the court to mandate that ALL must be done now is both fiscally irresponsible & ludicrous. As my old Boss & retired Master Chief once told me: "If you're worrying about everything, you'll do justice to nothing."
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Do I have to state or make the argument again that this might be one of the most short sighted "solutions" constantly being proposed....
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Fixed it for you . . .
Those are also real-time, significant impacts that should be addressed.
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Fixed it for you buddy....
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This is why we can't have nice things. While no one here would be likely to argue that removing salmon barriers is a bad thing, the discussion went from "here is some pertinent info" to Troll attacks in one reply, and downhill from there.
OK, it's a difficult question; how does the state comply? For those of you who might have read the article, it includes this statement,
Seattle U.S. District Judge Ricardo S. Martinez held that fish-blocking culverts contribute to diminished salmon runs by blocking access to miles of suitable streams. In 2013, he ordered the state to replace hundreds of the highest-priority culverts within 17 years.
It sounds to me like they are Not being required to go about this without planning and prioritization. Yes, it's a lot of money. Yes, there are many other challenges to bringing back healthy salmon runs. Yes, there is little doubt this could make a significant difference. I don't think Charlie the Sea Lion is the main culprit in the salmon population decline.
OK, it's a difficult question; how does the state comply? For those of you who might have read the article, it includes this statement,
Seattle U.S. District Judge Ricardo S. Martinez held that fish-blocking culverts contribute to diminished salmon runs by blocking access to miles of suitable streams. In 2013, he ordered the state to replace hundreds of the highest-priority culverts within 17 years.
It sounds to me like they are Not being required to go about this without planning and prioritization. Yes, it's a lot of money. Yes, there are many other challenges to bringing back healthy salmon runs. Yes, there is little doubt this could make a significant difference. I don't think Charlie the Sea Lion is the main culprit in the salmon population decline.
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It would be interesting to see a map of where the streams are located and some details on what types of salmon use those streams.
I do agree there are a lot of factors limiting salmon returns, some of which have been mentioned in this thread. While fixing the culverts may help, it won't neccessily guarantee more fish will return. You have to have returning fish that will utilize the new habitat before you'll see results.
I guess the next question is will this really cost the "State of Washington" 2 billion?
It would seem to reason that the bill for this would be spread out based on whether the state, counties or cities are responsible for roads that require action.
SF
I do agree there are a lot of factors limiting salmon returns, some of which have been mentioned in this thread. While fixing the culverts may help, it won't neccessily guarantee more fish will return. You have to have returning fish that will utilize the new habitat before you'll see results.
I guess the next question is will this really cost the "State of Washington" 2 billion?
It would seem to reason that the bill for this would be spread out based on whether the state, counties or cities are responsible for roads that require action.
SF
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Not sure how it directly relates to the lawsuit, but there is some info here regarding locations.
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/FishPassage/
We've had some recent projects along the Mount Baker Highway to improve fish passage to streams and another is being installed this summer. I think I saw somewhere that salmon fry were seen above one of the recently installed passages.
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/FishPassage/
We've had some recent projects along the Mount Baker Highway to improve fish passage to streams and another is being installed this summer. I think I saw somewhere that salmon fry were seen above one of the recently installed passages.
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This link has a map of all 825 of the WSDOT culverts that are part of the lawsuit.
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyr...95B3C8066E27/0/FishPassage_ReaderFriendly.pdf
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyr...95B3C8066E27/0/FishPassage_ReaderFriendly.pdf
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considering their unchecked expansion along the coasts, the nuisance they make of hauling themselves out on every dock between Seattle and San Diego in such numbers that they actually sink small boats; considering the huge numbers of salmon they consume, and the problems fish&wildlife have had in the past 5 years, and considering they have figured out how to climb the fish ladders up to and including Rocky Reach dam about 11 miles south of Wenatchee, you have a better idea??
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