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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The neighbors of the USA have a very clear view of our National Problem:

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ite-house-a-1129925.html#ref=nl-international

I wonder how many agree with the article; and how many join the subject in his self love? The author(s) of the article had a very simple solution for getting along with our President, but at what cost?

From reading other threads on WFF, we hang a lot of faith in Zinke to protect public lands, but he still has to be approved. And, could he do anything once in position? I can see the man in the same revenge role as Romney.

So, how does a nation manage and protect its future resources in the current political, social, business environment?
 

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It depends. If the GOP Congress accepts Trump as a fellow Republican, they will do his bidding up to and including destroying the planet. After all, Congess is mostly political hacks, and everything is measured in terms of political consquences. If they don't accept him as a fellow R, they'll shut him down. But most GOP hacks get their marching orders from interests that collide with environmental protection, so I anticipate wholesale slaughter of natural resources at least through the mid-terms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Two days down, and 1450+/- to go..... Still alive.

The man is very predictable, and simple. He can just do too many things to destroy the Country. He already is. So far, the GOP Congress seems fearful. Based on the easy exit of candidate contenders, an entity has manipulated the GOP since before Fliptop ascended in the race to GOP convention. It continues to control them. If he goes too far in the psychoses, Congress has ways to push the Executive into a closet. But I suspect Congress will use the man as a patsy and scapegoat.

This still does not head off an environmental catastrophe. Are there any Teddy Roosevelt Republicans and Democrats in Congress to align with sane members to advance future stewardship?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Day 4? Day Four. Not dead, yet. China is not pleased with the new puppppuu,,, ... Fliptop.

Mr. Me declared a gag order for Government Agencies... He also has made indefensible voter fraud allegations "White House Policy". In fact they are outright lies. This disregard of truth will destroy any credibility, his or the Country's. Nothing new for him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3c4b4fb5a63_story.html?utm_term=.78bd8a16d2aa

Fliptop is focusing on agencies that administer federal lands and the EPA. The plan gelling presently, is that Mr. Me will remove the majority of development hindrance for business and cut business taxes in have. The "hindrance" turns out to be regulations. Based on this strategy, you can plan to kiss your fish goodbye.
 

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Day 4? Day Four. Not dead, yet. China is not pleased with the new puppppuu,,, ... Fliptop.

Mr. Me declared a gag order for Government Agencies... He also has made indefensible voter fraud allegations "White House Policy". In fact they are outright lies. This disregard of truth will destroy any credibility, his or the Country's. Nothing new for him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3c4b4fb5a63_story.html?utm_term=.78bd8a16d2aa

Fliptop is focusing on agencies that administer federal lands and the EPA. The plan gelling presently, is that Mr. Me will remove the majority of development hindrance for business and cut business taxes in have. The "hindrance" turns out to be regulations. Based on this strategy, you can plan to kiss your fish goodbye.
Not sure how this relates to Conservation in any way, but since you addressed voter fraud, which both parties accept and leverage, wonder why WA licenses are verging on not being acceptable as ID without "an enhancement". We are soon to face the same thing down here in CA.

Example on a simple google search for WA drivers license not acceptable ID
http://www.military.com/daily-news/...no-longer-accepting-ids-from-five-states.html

CA DMV website for fun
http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/ab-60-drivers-license.php

Voter fraud is a real issue. If folks need an ID to buy smokes, beer, and to cash checks, seek employment, or follow the law in general, why the hell do we not need to show ID to vote? Crying discrimination is disingenuous.

Obama was not for the China trade deal either, so don't lay it all on the new guy.

Using an article from a German pub' to prove a point is worthless. They are fast-tracking down the sewer and taking the rest of the EU with them. Spend time looking at their imigrant populous and the direct impact on their society. Germany is bank-rolling the continent, what will happen when they can no longer support the immigrant through social services? What will happen if the citizens rise in opposition something like rampant rape? Review Sweden on that one...

All the Pol's don't know what to do with him. He's an outsider and looking at the "business as usual" with new eyes. I'm not on the left, but will vociferously be heard when and if policies get out of bounds, in my opinion. Looking back at the last 8 years, the left never raised any concerns with their guy, which concerns me greatly. Suddenly the left are concerned, while the last eight years have been rosy and full of rainbows and unicorns?

Think of it as sports fans; just because your team is winning doesn't mean all is well. The left didn't criticize your guy in power even when voters blew out the left at Fed and State levels for eight years! However, it's a different story, even before the guy on the other team took the oath.

It's understandable if you don't like Mr. Me. Please be somewhat objective in your evaluations and predictions based on your past actions concerning your team. The new team won the game and is here for a few years. If they suck, they will lose next time. If they suck less than your team, they will win again. How it always has been.

I do truly admire the Fliptop label, that's funny!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Day 5. Fliptop is going to prove Voter fraud. Mr. Me did not win the popular vote and is pissed. Classic narcissism.

You make good points Jersey, and thank you for the compliment. Day 4 post was a jumble. A bit about narcissism in the title and its relation to conservation. (I am old school and refuse to adopt truncated and abridged terms, such as environmentalism and climate change.)

Traditionally, government has reacted to a problem. A country bombs Pearl Harbor, therefore we declare war. Simplistic. To be smart, one tunes into the social and political trends of government and people worldwide. A narcissist is a loose canon. Very loose. Who knows what will piss Fliptop off, and where will he take us in his mad rampages?

One thing we are certain of is his hatred of regulation in development. The EPA, and state equivalents are despised by most development and construction business. Our fish and health--Republicans already fabricate climate change lies--are pennies that fall out of their pockets and are unworthy of stooping to recover.

This is not conjecture. At some point you must weigh the information available and know the correct decision to make and direction to follow in order to protect our future.
 

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Voter fraud is a real issue. If folks need an ID to buy smokes, beer, and to cash checks, seek employment, or follow the law in general, why the hell do we not need to show ID to vote? Crying discrimination is disingenuous.

Obama was not for the China trade deal either, so don't lay it all on the new guy.
TPP does not include China, and Obama was for TPP

study after study has looked for voter fraud, including 5 years of intensive investigation during the GWBush administration, who were very motivated to find some, but they did not and could not find evidence of significant voter fraud.

Similarly, the presidents own lawyers just said there was no voter fraud during the challenges to do recounts in the northern rust belt states.

j

It depends. If the GOP Congress accepts Trump as a fellow Republican, they will do his bidding up to and including destroying the planet. After all, Congess is mostly political hacks, and everything is measured in terms of political consquences. If they don't accept him as a fellow R, they'll shut him down. But most GOP hacks get their marching orders from interests that collide with environmental protection, so I anticipate wholesale slaughter of natural resources at least through the mid-terms.
Although many of the current presidents positions during the campaign were nonconservative, his appointees are well aligned with todays conventional or even extreme R positions. You can argue whether todays R positions are consistent with what some of us believed to be conservative principles decades ag0: good governance, fairness, infrastructure, decisions based on reason, stability for commerce, and fiscal responsibility.

congress can threaten the president whenever they want, as he has impeachable conflicts of interest and he could also be removed for unfitness for office (time to learn Amendment 25). as long as he is useful to them, and not too dangerous, they won't. Pit an undisciplined president against a disciplined Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell with all the same tactics, and I would expect the latter to prevail.

All in all, resources, clean air, clean water, and public access are facing uncertain times.

In good news, Wyoming was responsive to sportsmen concerns and withdrew legislation in their state to ease privatization.
"Wyoming Senate President Eli Bebout said that he is killing a public lands transfer constitutional amendment bill that rattled sportsmen who warned the resolution would have led to eventual privatization and blocked access to the terrain."
http://www.moldychum.com/wyoming-kills-public-lands-transfer-bill/

j

P.S. can we avoid name calling?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Friday, 27th. One week. Mexico refuses to deal with the Great Shadow developing at its northern border. Funny that if trump's great wall is successful, Republicans will need to devise a different route for dope in order to feed their states' addicts.

My reference to China regarded S. China Sea developments. However, the sea is now passe and trump is moving on to his Chinese Wall. I seriously doubt any other domestic programs are more important than self aggrandizement. Is this edifice at Mexico equal to the Great Wall? Don't worry. Alternative facts will make it so.

People, do we need to see any more of this toxic clown to know he is only a diversion from the real intent of the Republican Party Handlers? Who's paying for a 15 billion (x 5) wall? Putin? The super rich and rich get their taxes cut in half. They aren't. And, obviously, they likely pay no taxes. Rex and his pals are going to literally poison this country. The racial and religious bigots are expanding hatred and xenophobia with inhuman laws. Forty years are unwinding in front of our faces.

Who voted these representatives of everything selfishly evil into office? Poor, the intelligent influenced by lies and a lifetime of bigotry. We can't even get real information without it being demonized by special interests. Are you so consumed by irrational hate, you will destroy yourselves.

One more oracle: You blue states, the hammer is overhead. Can you get your act together before it falls? After all, this is the conquest phase.

Who are the Republican Congressional representatives in our states?

Done, no more edits.
 

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There is not much upside to a good president but there is a $#!^load of downside to a bad one.
this argument did not hold much sway when I used it before the election

However, I don't think we should stereotype voters for either candidate into a single pot. There were many motivations for R voters, and for D voters.

After the election, I was sitting in the canteen at work and overhearing a small group of blue collar looking workers discussing the issues with having a person like Trump in the white house. The discourse was intelligent and thoughtful.

Then the main person admitted, "I voted for Trump" followed by "I didn't think he would win" followed by "I just wanted change".

Whether you are a D or an R or an I, and whoever you voted for, keep letting your senators and reps know where you stand.
And act at the state level!
This may be the new age of activism.
Don't lose heart!

@hbmcc , keep the updates coming!

j
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Day 7, again.

The direction our Republican controlled Congress is moving has no interest in truth, honesty, or safety--health, safety, and welfare. They need to know their actions are utterly despicable and do not have the vast majority of Americans needs at heart. Giving super rich and irresponsible businesses free reign of this country's (and world) resources for purely profitable exploitation is wrong. For Washington members, your Congressional contacts follow. I would not exclude anyone from hearing and seeing your concerns and demands for protecting our future health and especially, our children.

Links from Wikipedia are stripped from the list. Please use the webpage listed below to reach Wikipedia. And, while you are there, donate to Wikipedia. They need your financial support for continued service to the world.
************

Current Washington State Representatives

From- Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Representatives_from_Washington

Current members[edit]

Updated January 2017.[1]

Alphabetical[edit]

· Suzan DelBene (D) Website - Washington 1st

· Dennis Heck (D) Website - Washington 10th

· Jaime Herrera Beutler (R) Website Washington 3rd

· Pramila Jayapal (D) Website - Washington 7th

· Derek Kilmer (D) Website Washington 6th

· Rick Larsen (D) Website - Washington 2nd

· Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R) Website - Washington 5th

· Dan Newhouse (R) Website - Washington 4th

· David G. Reichert (R) Website - Washington 8th

· Adam Smith (D) Website - Washington 9th

By District[edit]

· Washington 1st - Suzan DelBene (D) (2012-present)

· Washington 2nd - Rick Larsen (D) (2001-present)

· Washington 3rd - Jaime Herrera Beutler (R) (2011-present)

· Washington 4th - Dan Newhouse (R) (2015-present)

· Washington 5th - Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R) (2005-present)

· Washington 6th - Derek Kilmer (D) (2013-present)

· Washington 7th - Pramila Jayapal (D) (2017-present)

· Washington 8th - Dave Reichert (R) (2005-present)

· Washington 9th - Adam Smith (D) (1997-present)

· Washington 10th - Dennis Heck (D) (2013-present)
 

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Stalking the little fish that think they're big...
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"In a democracy people get the leaders they deserve." -Joseph de Maistre

Apathy, complacency, fear and an ignorance of the facts will inevitably lead people (even good, decent people) towards action (or more rightly- inaction) that works against their own self-interests

Add to this an irrational fear of the "Feds," or an over-reliance and unfounded belief in the government's ability to solve our problems, and those same people will react...instead of acting... and you get vacillating moods instead of reasoned response and proactive planning

Too many "They're going for my guns!" and "The government owes me this and should solve my problems for me!"

This warped sense of morality and self-righteousness is not how we formulate our governments and institutions, but a real morality is one that places reality at the center of our decision making...which includes how we choose our leaders and representatives

That reality is that this earth is special, whether you think it is from the randomness of the universe or dreamed into existence by some diety. The flora and fauna that exist upon it exist only here, only now. It is a moral obligation (if we believe such thing truly matters) to safeguard the wonders of our world

Regardless of your position, the fact remains that we are all Public Land Owners... and we should act accordingly
 

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Stalking the little fish that think they're big...
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freestoneangler--

If those are issues that are important to you, then you should certainly vote your conscience. I wholly advocate, support and defend each individual's right to cast a ballot in line with their core beliefs, but only after careful thought and consideration about the actual truth and validity of the matter/ issue/ candidate

However, my point really has nothing to do with how one votes (or why,) per se, but:
1) extreme swings in political or personal ideology, fueld by fear and fostered by lack of understanding of the facts and tempered by raw emotions never lead to the best solution
2) as stated, regardless of political views in other areas, the main issue at hand is conservation and protection of public lands...those same lands that we love to hunt, fish, hike, camp, view wildlife and wilderness...places I want all of our grandchildren to enjoy, as well

Both sides play upon fear, whether actual or existential, fertilizing and propagating their special interest agendas through straw man arguments, false equivocation and ad hominem attacks

We should all, as citizens of this backwater part of the cosmos, come together to find real and meaningful solutions instead of blaming "them," shouting our philosophies over the heads of one another or engaging in populism and cults of personality (whoever that personality may be...Donald, Bernie, Hillary, Micky Mouse or Madonna)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Day 9. The world and most Americans react in outrage to an Executive Order barring refugees, migrants and foreign nationals from [currently] seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the United States.

@littlefish, circumstances have gone far beyond "blame". Welcome to 1984, The Fourth Reich, and Despotism; all in one ugly bundle. Even, Koch's ultra-conservative Americans For Prosperity--currently at 250 M and planning $400 M for 2018--is moving to sink the Border Wall Tax.

Cherish your minnows. I think we will be looking to eat them in the near future.
 

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Day 9. The world and most Americans react in outrage to an Executive Order barring refugees, migrants and foreign nationals from [currently] seven predominantly Muslim countries from entering the United States.
This has nothing to do with conservation and fishing. Pretty sure had a daily diatribe thread about Obama been started, it would have been locked. Carry on with your hysterical self.
 
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My retirement account is now 30% cash, soon going to 50%, and then maybe to 100%. Buying and stashing gold.
Everyone should have at least 10% of their nest egg in American Eagle or American Buffalo gold coins purchased fro the US govt.mint, stashed in a secret safe or vault, and also a bunch of American Eagle silver coins "under the mattress" for everyday expenses. Currencies have been degraded to nearly worthless, and a narcissistic egomaniac is now in charge. The markets are going to crash again.
 
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