[BH Spey]

I just got back from 5 days on the Bighorn. Fishing started out slow due to heavy rains prior to and including the day we arrived. After two days the river returned to it's normal fish factory self.

Anyway, I brought two pontoon boats with me, an 8' Classic Accessories that I loaned (and later sold) to my fishing partner, and a 9' Fishcat for myself. After fighting with the bulk and weight (Fishcat weighs 72 lbs) and 1.5 hour long setup and tear down times I've really been looking at the new framless "U" shaped pontoons and was wondering if anyone here had any experience with any of them.

Also, what are the pros & cons of bladderless vs a bladder?

Frameless Pontoons, The contenders:

Outcast Stealth Pro - price $999
Has bladder
8' long
4'-9" wide
16.25" diameter tubes
Weight 35 lbs
Carrying capacity 450 Lbs
One side storage bags
5 year warranty

Creek Co New Voyager - price $995
Bladderless
8'-6" long
4'-6" wide
16" diameter tubes
Weight 35 lbs
Carrying capacity 375. Lbs
Two insulated side storage bags
5 year warranty

NFO Outlaw Renegade - price $999
Bladderless
9' long
4'-7" wide
15" diameter tubes
Weight 26 lbs
Carrying capacity 800. Lbs
Two side storage bags
Lifetime warranty

Any comments you may have on the above boats (or similarly priced competitors) would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

 

[Panther]

I have had my Renegade for four years now and I love it. It's considerably lighter than the other boats, and that's important to me. I don't know about the Creek Company boat, but I like the Renegade over the Stealth Pro for these reasons:
1. Lighter weight.
2. 2 side storage bags versus one.
3. One foot longer (helps with the way I mount my fish finder.
4. A better foot bar.
To be fair, I do like the Outcast system for attaching an anchor, or a second side bag (if you want to buy one).

 

[BH Spey]

[QUOTE="Panther, post: 1165547, member: .... I like the Renegade over the Stealth Pro for these reasons:
1. Lighter weight.
2. 2 side storage bags versus one.
3. One foot longer (helps with the way I mount my fish finder.
4. A better foot bar.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the response! With respect to your comments:
1. Lighter weight. - How noticeable is a 9 lb weight difference? You are only spending a few minutes at most carrying the boat to and from the vehicle each day, I can't imagine it would make any difference on the water.
2. 2 side storage bags versus one. The Stealth's bag attachment system looks pretty neat, as opposed to the four straps on the Renegade, but yes two bags would be preferable to one. The strap on bags is one of the things I'm not that pleased with on my Fishcat pontoon.
3. One foot longer (helps with the way I mount my fish finder. Though the ad claims it to be a 9' boat I've read elsewhere that it only measures out at around 8'-2" - can you confirm/disprove?
4. A better foot bar. It's hard to tell from the pictures but the bar looks to be a thicker diameter on the Renegade, is that what you are referring to?

Any comments on bladder vs bladderless?

Thanks again!

 

[Jim F.]

I have had zero issues with my Renegade, although I haven't used it much of late. The only mod I made was replacing the foot bar with quick-release clipped NRS straps (I have long legs) & adding 2 more D rings so I could attach the leading edge of the apron farther out.

 

[troutpocket]

Any particular reason Watermaster isn't on your list? It's a proven design that remains very desirable.

 

[Freestone]

Bladders vs Bladderless is a Ford vs Chevy thing.

I favor bladders - but only urethane bladders, not cheap vinyl bladders. Urethane is very tough, very stretchy (aka stretches a lot before it punctures) and is much longer lasting (aka holds air) than the PVC bladderless boats. Plus, you have double protection of your air as the outer shell is just that - protection. Rip or puncture the outside and you still have your inner tube. If a puncture is really bad and you puncture the urethane bladder too, it can be permanently patched easily and instantly on the river with a TearAid patch. (many/most bladder horror stories involve cheap vinyl bladders).

I'd go for the Outcast. I have lots of their boats and never a problem. However, if I did, they have awesome customer service so I trust it will be dealt with quickly.

But I have to ask, why the heck is it taking you sooo long to set up/tear down your Fish Cat?! I have multiple Outcast pontoons (8', 11', and 2-person) and it takes about 10 mins. However, I leave everything rigged and merely break the smaller frames in half. Not one thing gets removed (not straps, pockets, etc.) that doesn't have to be. If you have the newest Fishcat, I'd just pull two springer clips from one side and one side of the mesh (though I'd simplify this system). I'd leave the anchor/motor mount bar at home as I never use it. It's your money, but if the only reason you are thinking frameless is the time, I'd seriously reconsider how and what you do to rig/derig your boat.

And I agree with the poster who asked why a Water Master isn't on the list. I have one and love it, although I mostly use it on lakes and use the pontoons on rivers. Another boat I'd add to the list to consider is the Catchercraft Freestone. With it's mini-frame, it is bound to be more capable than any of the frameless boats.

 

[4357]

Like Panther's post above, I also have the Renegade and have had no issues in the four years I've owned mine. In fact, I really like it.
I got it for it's light weight advantage to other available boats on the market, because of a back issue I have.
Lighter weight = less misery.

I don't do any white water, and the boat has served me well up until... the much lighter weight NFO Predator became available.
I bought that - and my back is even happier and healthier!

Weight matters (a lot) if/when you have back issues, so these two lighter weight boats makes getting them in and out of the truck and to/from the water (in some places I have to carry it a distance) a pretty big advantage for me.

We live in a lucky time, there's lots of options for everyone.

 

[BH Spey]

Any particular reason Watermaster isn't on your list?

I guess just as a matter of personal preference I like the open front design to a raft design, primarily for ease of entry/exit. If I opt for the Renegade I would attach a clip to one end of the foot bar, don't know exactly what I'd do about the foot bar on the Stealth, but would consider D rings and a clip system.

 

[BH Spey]

... it can be permanently patched easily and instantly on the river with a TearAid patch...

... But I have to ask, why the heck is it taking you sooo long to set up/tear down your Fish Cat?!

What type of patch system do you have to use on a bladderless boat. The TearAid patches are fantastic! I've patched a pontoon on both of the boats, the CA boat stream side in the rain after my son got sucked into a Russian Olive tree on the Bighorn when the river was running at 10,500 CFS. Both patches have lasted about 5 +/- years thus far.

As for the setup time it's primarily due to lack of use and the fact that I break it down fully and put it in a large duffle bag after each use. I typically only use it a couple of Saturdays flaoting either the upper St Croix or Mississippi for Smallmouth, and then a week long trip to the Bighorn. On the week long trip I only set up the first day and tear down the last and strap the inflated pontoon to the top of the rental car/van.

 

[Mumbles]

Three good options.

Agree with the length of setup and tear down wonder. If for only a couple of trips a year, why not use it more and perfect your setup and break down operation?

Can't beat Outcast/Aire customer service.

I really like my bladder less scadden solo raft, but haven't needed customer support.

 

[Sportsman]

I guess just as a matter of personal preference I like the open front design to a raft design, primarily for ease of entry/exit. If I opt for the Renegade I would attach a clip to one end of the foot bar, don't know exactly what I'd do about the foot bar on the Stealth, but would consider D rings and a clip system.

I also have the Renegade, bought it used on this site, and have had excellent customer service. Only needed it for buying accessories, no issues on the raft itself. I ditched the foot bar and made my own foot strap, copied the Waterstrider's design. If you search my posts around April 2011, you'll find pictures. I even have extra strap material left over and your welcome to it if you buy a Renegade. Advantages: easy to walk in and just clip one side, and adjustable length.

 

[chromefinder]

I'll jump in here...

The Renegade is not 9 feet long its less...

Out of the three companies your considering one has Stellar customer service before and after the sale. One has decent and one is very poor. These are just my opinions based on my own experiences so take that for what its worth.

The weight capacity ratings and the white water ratings of any craft are all subjective since there are NO standards that manufactures are required to follow so they can market a craft and rate it however they want.

The bags on my Renegade get in the way of rowing so i don't use them... the bag layout on the Outcast is more efficient.

Owning a Renegade and looking at the new Creek Co Voyager I'd say they are being made by the same off-shore manufacturer...with different logos, fabric colors and different valves and valve placement

PM me if you'd like more details on the issues i have with my Renegade fabric cracking and leaking

A small frame-less like these would be ideal for short floats like Bighorn Afterbay to 3 mile Access but I'd certainly want a framed boat for any longer floats than that to provide more powerful and faster rowing through the flat water and inevitable wind unless your long float consist of continuous fast water...

 

[BH Spey]

... why not use it more and perfect your setup and break down operation?

A big part of it is the size and weight of the thing, lugging the 72 lb boat bag up and down the basement stairs. Then there is the having to set all the frame pieces out in the sun for a day or so to dry out before packing it back up after even a one day trip.

Thanks for the comments though!

 

[Brennen Busse]

I just bought a stealth pro. The mounting system options on this boot are really nice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[skyrise]

Question: for mostly stillwater fishing should I really consider a frame pontoon boat ? Have a driftboat if i want to fish moving water.

 

[Sportsman]

Just my 2 cents, but a frameless is more than adequate for lakes and many rivers. The advantages of pulling up to a lake, with no set up time and light weight is huge. I don't care what raft anyone buys, but I bought a used Renegade, have had zero issues with it and have received stellar customer support. Not sure why, but I suspect that the very vocal negatives...probably deserved..... are far less than 1/10th of 1 percent of Dave's total sales. The Renegade replaced both a Watermaster and Waterstrider for floating the Yakima, Sky and Bogy. Again just my opinion, and more than a decade experience with the other 2 mentioned, but far superior on rivers or stillwaers for many different reasons. PM if you want details. I'm sure the recent copies of Dave's design are more than adequate, but no first hand knowledge of either, except for checking them out at fly shops. Several things I don't care about either one, but others think they are a plus...makes no difference to me, I just wouldn't trade my Renegade for either one.

 

[troutpocket]

Question: for mostly stillwater fishing should I really consider a frame pontoon boat ? Have a driftboat if i want to fish moving water.

Sorry to drift off topic . . .as long as there is a suitable launch, I really like a drift boat for fishing lakes. Outfitted with a bow anchor for dual anchoring and a fish finder . . .very capable and comfortable on lakes.

Otherwise, I prefer frameless inflatables (I use a watermaster) for ease of transportation and quick setup compared to framed pontoon boats. My WM also rides lower so it catches less wind than most pontoon boats with rockered pontoons.

 

[Stonefish]

Have you considered the FishCat Scout?
Vinyl bladder but a five year guarantee and excellent service via Outcast should you ever need it.
Based on the great reviews people give on their Fishcat 4 tubes and how many I see in use out there, I'd buy a FishCat Scout model long before anything from Creek Co.
SF

 

[Panther]

Question: for mostly stillwater fishing should I really consider a frame pontoon boat ? Have a driftboat if i want to fish moving water.

I'm a Stillwater fisherman. Frameless, for me, is the only way to go. I want to fish, not spend time setting up frames to start and taking them down when finished. I live at elevation 62', and fish at locations ranging from 4400 to 10,000...so I have to assemble and take down my watercraft at the lake.

 

[LCnSac]

I have owned the Renegade, and currently have the lighter Predator. I strongly prefer the Predator, but 90% of the reason is the ultra light weight. The Renegade has skid pads, the Predator does not. The Renegade appears to be much more heavy duty in materials. For mostly moving waters, I'd prefer the Renegade; for still waters the Predator is perfect for me.

There was a previous comment about the bags getting in the way of rowing with the Renegade. They do. Same with the Predator. Pretty minor though as you can move the bags back some to mostly avoid it. I am sure the Stealth Pro is fine too--I just prefer the Scadden design and lighter weight. I've had no problems with Scadden service. I understand some have, but he's been more than accommodating for both the Rene and Predator. I also had an Assault for about 30 days. That is one I would avoid and move up to the larger toons.