flyfisherking the side-winder is not quite what I am looking for but I will show your post to a buddy of mine he might be interested in the true rotary stuff thank you for your reply. since i am tying commersially I will use a true rotary vise for some patterns to help tie faster. but, now i am looking for a vice that I can swap hooks in and out quickly and that is very durable. I know regals do this very well but I have heard of the jaws breaking on them. my hope is this will be the last vise I will buy and thats saying something because I have many years left to be alive.