[quadradomus]

I am pretty certain that I will pick up one of the Dave Scadden frameless pontoons in the near future.
I was wondering if any of you have any experiemce with the frameless models, particulary, Outlaw? Detonator? Or any others I suppose.
From what I have seen of their items via the shows, they appear amazingly well constructed, lifetime warranty, I believe. And tjese frameless ones are SUPER light!
My 10 y/o Outcast w/frame is SUPER heavy.

Curious who has used one, how they handle, oars in your way? Etc.

 

[typhoon]

Might want to do a search. You will have to wade through pages of politics, defensiveness, anger, and other bad behaviors but the information is there.
This thread will likely also degrade to the same level.

I have an Assault (second gen) and it works great. It's still too heavy to carry any significant distances but meets all my requirements for a single occupant boat in lakes, rivers, or salt. The rivers I take it on are really tame - class I or weak class II but I wouldn't hesitate to take it on somewhat wilder rivers.
In the salt I stay in shallower areas with minimal rip.

 

[Wayne Kohan]

I had a Scadden Assault for awhile, I now have a used Outcast 800 pontoon. I loved the light weight of the Scadden, but not sure it really helped much. I still had to build a cart to get it into Lenice as it was difficult to carry, due to it's size, and the accessories and gear (and anchor) add considerably to the boat. So my point is that it was no easier to get to the water. I absolutely hate the oar lock system, too low and I'm not a big person. Also floated the Ronde once for three days, hated the oar system for that as well when I caught a downstream oar and nearly flipped. Finally I don't feel that the material is anywhere near bombproof, I ended up with a small puncture that I have no idea how it happened. Likely in my garage but have never had anything like that on any other boat. It is light weight material. I was uncomfortable on the Ronde when I got near rocks.

I'm not saying any bad about Scadden, just about frameless boats in general. Especially lightweight material boats.

Wayne

 

[jake-e-boy]

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/forum/threads/new-watermaster-alternative.124179/

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/forum/threads/dave-scadden-switch-blade-review.117799/

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/forum/threads/no-scadden-warranty-service.109325/

 

[quadradomus]

Might want to do a search. You will have to wade through pages of politics, defensiveness, anger, and other bad behaviors but the information is there.
This thread will likely also degrade to the same level.

I have an Assault (second gen) and it works great. It's still too heavy to carry any significant distances but meets all my requirements for a single occupant boat in lakes, rivers, or salt. The rivers I take it on are really tame - class I or weak class II but I wouldn't hesitate to take it on somewhat wilder rivers.
In the salt I stay in shallower areas with minimal rip.

Oh man... woh.. I just did a little looking around. There is a lot of interesting banter to read. I am at work, and this will require more time to dive into.
Thank you for the tip though.

 

[Panther]

I fish streams, but only on foot...don't float them. I have a Scadden Renegade that I use on still water. I use it a good number of days per year. It has lasted 4 years so far, and is in great shape. The light weight (and virtually no setup time) are a big plus for me. If I had it to do over again, I would still choose the Renegade. But, as I mentioned, I have no experience floating rivers with it.

 

[quadradomus]

I fish streams, but only on foot...don't float them. I have a Scadden Renegade that I use on still water. I use it a good number of days per year. It has lasted 4 years so far, and is in great shape. The light weight (and virtually no setup time) are a big plus for me. If I had it to do over again, I would still choose the Renegade. But, as I mentioned, I have no experience floating rivers with it.

Thank you, Panther. I'm glad you are happy with the Renegade, and I appreciate your coming on here in light of all the issues that have come up. The Renegade was the one I had considered.
I never plan to float any moving water, ever.
Strictly lakes, but I fish some lakes that are 1000+ acres.
I did decide to pull the trigger on the Outcast Stealth Pro.

 

[Jim F.]

I also have a Renegade - I've had no problems either with the boat or in dealing with Scadden.

 

[JackJester]

My wife an I each have had Renegades for about 6 years. We mainly fish lakes but have done some class 2 - 3 rivers. I have had to patch a few holes in mine over the years near the front of the seat portion. But, I am a fan of the frameless for the fishing that we do. I had an Outback framed pontoon before and it was pain due and weight and space it took up. We bought them through Cabelas to avoid having to deal directly with Scadden. It worked out (Scaddens' customer service is suspect as you will see on the many forum postings). Last year my stock Scadden oar cracked so I decide to get an Outcast oar, but is is too heavy. I'm not sure what my next move will be. The stock oars that come with scadden pontoons are weak and short. I like the boat, but if I had to do it all over again, I would seriously compare/contrast with the Outcast Stealth. Although the Stelath is 8 ft vs 9 ft. I think the 8 ft is fine for lakes (which I fish 90% of the time) but I am more comfortable in rivers with 9 ft. This model did not exist when we bought our Renegades. Basically its the same boat, but the Outcast customer service is excellent, and the oars might be a little more beefier. (http://www.outcastboats.com/frameless/osg-stealth-pro-lime.asp). I just checked out the scadden website and it looks like the new 2017 Renegade has a new seat configuration that is supposed to be more solid than what I have. I can't comment on this, but he claims you can stand up in it...good luck http://www.davescaddenpaddlesports....product/dave-scadden's-2017-renegade-r-series. As always, your decision should depend on the type of fishing you do most often.

 

[Mumbles]

I have an outlaw assault. Fine River or stillwater craft. I can float and fin kick the Yakima without touching the oars most times. Makes for great fun fishing.

 

[Bill Aubrey]

I have had multiple Scadden boats with no issues whatsoever. Great boats at a great price. I am thinking of another.

 

[IveofIone]

As an old guy I can vouch for the Scadden boats on the basis of weight alone. My old South Fork pontoon must weigh north of 50# while the new Predator weighs in around 16#. Except for the seat everything about it is an improvement on the South Fork. I sill love the old SF for it's comfort and use it in situations where lifting and toting it isn't an issue.

From an engineering standpoint the Scadden boats leave something to be desired. Too many lapses and shortcuts for a boat that has such a high MSRP. Had a quality control guy like myself been involved those shortcomings would have never left the factory.

For lakes it is just excellent, the 30# thrust MinnKota pushes it around easily with the 24# AGM wheelchair battery. The Scotty system mounts attach easily and provide a great attachment for a Scotty anchor mount. A Fishin' Buddy mounts out of the way in front and the big pockets haul lots of stuff and also provide a spot to carry a spare rod.

The motor mount I built for the MinnKota is modular in that it can also accept a wheeled carriage I built to roll the boat in to some off the road lakes. The wheel carriage snaps in place and is locked down by some big thumbscrews. The Predator has a rigid foot bar that I replaced and extended for more comfort. Wearing a back support wading belt made by Orvis I can step in between the seat and the footbar and attach the footbar to my wading belt. Now the hips support most of the weight of the boat that isn't on the wheels and my arms are freed up to carry a rod case. Even with lunch, water, net, fins and extra clothing on the boat there is still little loading on the hips. It has made walk-ins much easier than they ever were with wheels on the South Fork.

I am using the carbon fiber oars and can recommend them, they are light and fast. The boat did not come with a means of shipping those oars when not in use and that was an oversight. I made some simple oar hooks that mount to something on the side of the boat that look like oar retainers but aren't. It would have been a no-brainer for the factory to provide something like that since the fittings are already there. Again, I got the feeling that the guys that built the boat never actually used one.

Overall I would rate the boat a "B" with some "A's" and a few "D's". Lack of attention to details separate average from good.

PS: That seat on the new Renegade looks a helluva lot better than the erector set on my Predator!

 

[4357]

I have a Renegade as well as a Predator and have been really pleased with both of them.
As Ive had mentioned above, I too chose these boats mostly because they're so lightweight . I ordered directly from Dave and had no issues at all.
I use them mostly for fishing in lakes, and really appreciate the light weight aspect and ease of getting them to and from the water without messing up my inherently weak back.

 

[jwcolvin]

I am pretty certain that I will pick up one of the Dave Scadden frameless pontoons in the near future.
I was wondering if any of you have any experiemce with the frameless models, particulary, Outlaw? Detonator? Or any others I suppose.
From what I have seen of their items via the shows, they appear amazingly well constructed, lifetime warranty, I believe. And tjese frameless ones are SUPER light!
My 10 y/o Outcast w/frame is SUPER heavy.

Curious who has used one, how they handle, oars in your way? Etc.

I purchased a Detonator Jan 7, 2017. It looked awesome at the expo in Denver. I was told it would be on my porch in 2 weeks. It was one month late but things were still icy in Colo and I figured Dave got swamped with orders. On arrival the pontoon looked beautiful. A couple of things were missing: integrated anchor lock/motor mount and a hull number. I have left 7 messages over the past month and no response - and I was quite polite in all cases. I will be able to figure out the integrated anchor lock/motor mount on my own (I shouldn't have to) but the hull number was a pain. The paperwork included a hull number but it was nowhere to be found on the pontoon. I registered the craft anyway using the hull number in the paperwork. I get a call about a week later from the state office saying that the hull number was invalid and if I and Dave could not resolve this the matter would be sent to the Coast Guard. They wanted me to take the pontoon to a place where an employee could inspect it. Sure enough, the employee could not find it. So, if have to apply for new hull number. When you meet Dave, he is a likable and engaging fellow. I believe he stays in business by being a great marketer and top notch innovator. My detonator looks like the ultimate pontoon/float tube. I will be using it soon. But beware, you cannot trust his word and he may stonewall you in the communication department. Fishing forums are rife with complaints about him.

 

[nooksacker]

I have two Scadden boats a Renegade and a Rampage. I also have an X 5 rowing frame that fits the Rampage perfect and makes it into a pretty nice fame boat. These boats especially the Rampage are extremely versatile light easy to transport and great to fish from. They are not white water boats but they are great river boats. If you what to touch a little white water on your way to the next drift these are among the best. If you wish to play or challenge yourself in class 3...4 water these are not for you. These are fishing boats and for the price they are good ones.

 

[GOTY]

The people who argue against scaddens will bitch for days that they aren't class 5 capable, but nobody I know would dare try to run class 5 in a scadden to begin with, so I'm not sure what their gripe is.

They are awesome and portable boats at a great price.

 

[BDD]

Many folks that argue against Scadden aren't doing so because of his boats. Most (and there are a lot but then he sells a lot too) complain about either lack of customer service or the quality of his accessories and components. The boats and frames (on those that have frames) are pretty decent and there is a lot of innovation and design that goes into them, as a fishing boat. But not as a whitewater boat. I think you are running up a slippery slope when you make outlandish claims about your products, trying to convince people who don't know enough about boating and potentially encouraging them to try water that they probably can't handle. That just seems like a bad idea.

I get numerous calls and emails each week, asking about what river class Catchercraft boats can handle. Many of them tell me they are told Scadden boats can handle class V water and want to know if our boats can too. The first thing I think of is if you have to ask, chances are you probably shouldn't be tacking anything more than class 2...but I don't necessarily tell them that. But maybe I should? I do tell them that generally it is the rower's skills and experience that determine what can be done in their craft. Anyone who claims that their frameless boat can handle class 5 rapids to people who have never been on anything worse than class 2 is just not a good sales approach in my opinion.

 

[skitterbug]

I think you are running up a slippery slope when you make outlandish claims about your products, trying to convince people who don't know enough about boating and potentially encouraging them to try water that they probably can't handle. That just seems like a bad idea.

It is a bad idea! It's like recommending a 70's Ford Pinto for a smash-up derby, both are not going to end very well!

If you have ever done Class 5 river's, you would never make the claim that your boats are "Class 5 rated"

Dave, that's sad that you get a couple calls a week asking about the rating of your boats, that would be difficult to respond to, but brutal honesty might save someone's life?

 

[tippet]

I love my outlaw predator.

 

[SpeyFitter]

The people who argue against scaddens will bitch for days that they aren't class 5 capable, but nobody I know would dare try to run class 5 in a scadden to begin with, so I'm not sure what their gripe is.

No, this is not what "THEIR" gripe is.

I'm being generous when I say that MOST anglers who aspire to buy a pontoon craft of some sort with the main or a partial intention of floating rivers are ignorant when it comes to navigation of rivers & whitewater safety. And Dave Scadden knows this. Do you know how I know he knows this? Because he puts a Class 5 rating on some of his boats, and openly markets & promotes this supposed rating online and at the various shows he attends and many of these aspiring owners then begin placing a value on this rating in their shopping. This is very concerning!

Want Proof? Most in here know how discerning & particular I am (it helps me in my line of work however, working on industrial burners that can blow up large buildings). But even I was ignorant. Here's proof (Check out Post #8 by yours truly): http://forum.flybc.ca/index.php?showtopic=35257&hl=dave+scadden

No one is saying that some of Dave Scadden boats can't do some whitewater. Hell maybe there is someone who fluked through a Class 5 once or twice on one (does anyone know someone who regularly runs Class 5 in one?). IMHO this Class 5 rating has no real substance or basis in reality and is nothing more than a greasy sales scheme pure and simple. A scheme designed to prey upon anglers who don't know much about rivers and whitewater but like anyone want some kind of assurance. Unfortunately there are no assurances that can be given in running whitewater rivers. Only mitigation efforts you take through training, preparation, and having an appropriate boat that can deal with the stresses of the water you are running. We're all in between flips.