not bad.... not bad.... I have said it a few times on this forum though..... Hk is the way to go for fishing side arms..... Submerge em, beat em, freeze em and so on.... Not to mention my USP tactical holds 12 rounds of .45 acp

 

Well, it would certainly handle rattlers in eastern Washington, as well as bears with the .45 Long Colt loads!

 

the idea of a small shotgun sidearm is appealing due to the fact that you can get less-than-lethal loaded shotshells. i'd rather fire rock salt on a perturbed tweaker than a .45 slug

 

lol @ guns

 

ummm... ok

 

seriously though i wish i had a pistol of some sort. actually i wish i had this pistol. **** shooting people though. Don't do that, there is a better way. At least aim for the foot.

 

Aim for the foot? If you've pulled the gun, you've already commited to shooting to kill. If you can't follow through, don't pull the gun. Shooting the foot sounds more 'PC', but what happens when you miss and he closes the gap and grabs your gun or stabs you with that knife? Or when the gun that he's been reaching for is now pointed at your head??

If you are going to pack a gun for self defense, you need to be ready to shoot to kill. If you aren't, then either keep the gun for snakes or whatever, or just don't pack at all. At least that's my 2 cents...

 

...... The Taurus 'Judge' (so named for the habit of Federal judges to carry pistols under their robes in south Florida courtrooms),...../QUOTE]

Florida rocks!

 

after 4yrs of residence in florida... i beg to differ

 

... not to mention for subduing all those hogs that resist coming to net.

 

Kent,

Upon reading the attached link I came away a little more interested than I was at first. As you know (or may not know) I collect fine vintage S&W revolvers, mostly in .44 Special, so I'm a dyed-in-the-wool wheelgun man. I would cry like a baby if I dropped one of these fine old Smiths in the rocks, so I often carry a cheap little .22 revolver in my pack. I rarely do this when fishing, but more often when I'm hunting chukar in the rimrock in Central Washington. I'm always paranoid, through personal experience, that my dog will get hit by a rattler. I also carry the .22 for coyotes, as I've had them try to lure my dog(s) into a chase, which would most likely end up in an ambush with other yotes. My old 16ga double with #7.5 shot doesn't have the range for that. This goofy looking revolver actually appears to be a great choice for a trail gun. And it's a Taurus, so if it tumbles down a steep canyon it won't be the end of the world (not that you'd want that to happen). I like it. By the way, if you don't roll your own you can get some nice heavy loads for bears via Buffalo Bore Ammunition, of St. Ignatius, MT. Url: http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#low45

Cliff

 

I'm suprised that I have never though of a side arm where I fish. I get as far off the beaten path as I can get sometimes. I know that there are Bears up where I go and Bull Moose. I only got out of the Upper Ruby one time because there was something in the bushes rattling around. But as for snakes, since I've been in Montana I have only seen one snake and it was a garder snake about 18" long.

Jim

 

Have to agree with the general sentiment above. REALLY want to scare hell out of 'someone/something?' Bring along your 'red-headed' wife. By the way ... what's a 'garder snake?' Sounds dangerous!!

 

Here's what I get to pack... in silver...

I am looking for a replacement, unless I desire to go old west style and get a holster that will fit on my wading belt... That Taurus is interesting.

 

Shooting rattlesnakes...WTF and LOL. What, they're gonna chase you like a black mamba? :rofl:

Considering that the vast majority of people who get bit are dill-holes trying to...

(1) kill them or

(2) handle them (that would be me)

I don't really see the point of shooting them. If they scare ya...stay home. I walk around them. It's quieter and and cheaper

 

Shooting rattlesnakes...WTF and LOL. What, they're gonna chase you like a black mamba? :rofl:

Considering that the vast majority of people who get bit are dill-holes trying to...

(1) kill them or

(2) handle them (that would be me)

I don't really see the point of shooting them. If they scare ya...stay home. I walk around them. It's quieter and and cheaper

David, I love ALL wildlife, including rattlesnakes. I think they're endlessly fascinating creatures. But if it comes to my bird dog being bitten by one, well, I would have to protect my pooch. As for me, I'm not fearful of them, just respectful.

Cliff

ps - Exactly what IS a dill-hole? I've heard that term before but I just can't picture it....

 

No argument here. Defending your pooch (or God forbid a child) is a priority.

I was just thinking, for most folks, avoiding them is a safer bet. I just have this vision of someone tromping down a trail, seeing a snake and say "OMG there's a SNAKE!!" *BLAM*.

Obviously my vision does not fit all situations or folks

Oh yeah...that Taurus looks like a nifty sidearm.

 

The vast majority of snake bites are the direct result of a known chemical reaction between testosterone and alcohol.

Anyone tried out that Taurus by the way? Wondering what kind of a recoil you would have with 410 shells.

 

. . . Anyone tried out that Taurus by the way? Wondering what kind of a recoil you would have with 410 shells.

Yes, my neighbor has. He says it's comparable with the .357 Taurus Titanium both he and I own.

K

 

I am posting here against my better judgement, but am curious what others are doing so differently than I am. I have spent good time in the outdoors, hiking, fishing, hunting, etc. My dog knows well enough to stay away from rattlers. If he comes across a snake he is going to be bitten much quicker than I can pull a gun, get to the snake, aim, shoot, and "defend my dog." And I have yet to have a snake chase down and attack my dog. For all the training that anyone with a bird dog should do, it is not hard to train them away from rattlers - PM me and I will tell you how.

With regards to the "shooting to kill" vs. "shooting in the foot" debate, how about the tried and true, just walk away from your fishing hole strategy. I understand there are dangers from bears, cougar, and the like, but this is more directed at the "personal protection" people. I cannot imagine a possible scenario in which I would "need" a gun to protect myself while fishing. We should all be smart enough to know when to walk away from a specific area. We can all read people well enough to know when potential trouble is around. In those situations, how about just walking away? I understand this is a pain in the ass, and the argument people will have about their "right to fish where they want to fish" but for christ sake...THEY ARE ONLY FISH!!!

Too many people spending too much time worrying how to protect themselves from "the methheads." You want to protect yourself? Get off your asses and go volunteer at a teen center. Or better yet, spend the money you would on a fricking gun and pay for a guide to take someone fishing that otherwise may not understand the wonders of the outdoors. I understand that would take actual effort and be a slower solution to the problem, but I think it is far more constructive than shooting to kill.

my 2 cents.

Pieter

 

iagree

I am posting here against my better judgement, but am curious what others are doing so differently than I am. I have spent good time in the outdoors, hiking, fishing, hunting, etc. My dog knows well enough to stay away from rattlers. If he comes across a snake he is going to be bitten much quicker than I can pull a gun, get to the snake, aim, shoot, and "defend my dog." And I have yet to have a snake chase down and attack my dog. For all the training that anyone with a bird dog should do, it is not hard to train them away from rattlers - PM me and I will tell you how.

With regards to the "shooting to kill" vs. "shooting in the foot" debate, how about the tried and true, just walk away from your fishing hole strategy. I understand there are dangers from bears, cougar, and the like, but this is more directed at the "personal protection" people. I cannot imagine a possible scenario in which I would "need" a gun to protect myself while fishing. We should all be smart enough to know when to walk away from a specific area. We can all read people well enough to know when potential trouble is around. In those situations, how about just walking away? I understand this is a pain in the ass, and the argument people will have about their "right to fish where they want to fish" but for christ sake...THEY ARE ONLY FISH!!!

Too many people spending too much time worrying how to protect themselves from "the methheads." You want to protect yourself? Get off your asses and go volunteer at a teen center. Or better yet, spend the money you would on a fricking gun and pay for a guide to take someone fishing that otherwise may not understand the wonders of the outdoors. I understand that would take actual effort and be a slower solution to the problem, but I think it is far more constructive than shooting to kill.

my 2 cents.

Pieter

I am more afraid of people carrying guns around my waters than tweaker or animals. This is too creepy.

 

Has your friend patterned this little banger? I'm curious to see what the performance might be, questionable is my personal opinion, but who knows.

Evan, the rock salt load is an old wives tale, it doesn't stand up to the pressures and shock of being shot. You end up dusting them...

 

Has your friend patterned this little banger? I'm curious to see what the performance might be, questionable is my personal opinion, but who knows.

He said that the pellets 'spread' more than they would in a shotgun thanks to the Judge's rifled bore. As a result, he thinks that it's stopping power against a human-sized target would be best at from 10 to 15 feet. By 25 feet, the pellets would be too dispersed. But he quickly adds, that's what the two .45 Colt rounds are for.

K

 

I used to live in SE Texas, home of the Cottonmouth, a snake that is VERY aggressive. I had quite a few close encounters but was pretty damn accurate with a slingshot. That's all I needed to get one moving in the opposite direction. I'm sure the sting of a large steel ball would also do an ok job in warding off other animals, or people. But even someone on something might not stop without putting a lot of rounds in them. My father was a police officer in Menlo park back in the 60's. They were involved in a shoot-out with someone that was strung out. I believe he said it took about 40 rounds before the guy actually dropped. I hope that I'm never in a situation where I'd have to draw my weapon... but if I have to I'm prepared to use it. Although I'd much rather quietly walk away from any confrontation out fishing.

Scott

 

Scott, my dad was from the Missouri Ozarks, and yes, the cottonmouth is more aggressive than any snake I've ever seen. There's a small stream called Swan Creek, which empties into the White River at Forsyth, not far from Branson. There were plenty of water mocassains farther up the stream and they could be pretty aggressive. My mom was a tough Montana girl and she was afraid of going up there. Interesting comments on your father's experiences with the bad guy. I was a police officer for a brief time in Orange County, in the late 70's, and I recall stories such as this, especially after officers started using the Wondernines (hi capacity 9mm pistols). My dad was a career homicide detective with SPD and I've heard incredible stories of people shot up badly but exhibiting superhuman strength, not only through substance abuse, but also simple adrenaline. I recall one case where a guy was shot point-blank in the chest with a 12ga with buckshot and ran an entire city block before collasping. Your point is well taken.

Pieter, good comments. My dogs do NOT know enough to stay away from snakes. you can have a bird dog "snake trained", which is fairly common in the southern states where there are more snakes.
This is accomplished with a defanged rattler and e-collar. I understand it has a fairly high success rate, for those dogs which do not sprint right into one before being able to hear or sense it. I have a hunting pal who had his dog snake-broke with this method while he was living in Texas. Despite this, his dog was bitten on the nose in Robinson Canyon a couple of years back. He blundered into the rattler without having seen or smelled it and the snake didn't buzz him. So, it works, at least some of the time, and bird dogs being what they are - bold and aggressive, don't always do what they're supposed to do. I'm thinking about hunting mearns quail is Arizona next spring, and if I do I'm thinking strongly of having my younger setter snake-trained. As for not being able to be in a position to defend my dog with a handgun, well, that's just not true for me. I've been in a tight spot or two where a snake buzzed us and I was able to grab my dog and steer him away before he got into touble, but if I was more than ten seconds slower it might have been different. I could have just as easily shot the snake.

Cliff

 

Recently I've been thinking about a more potent fishing sidearm than what I have. It's the usual problem of weight vs power. I've fired a S&W Scandium framed .357 and it's downright painful. "The Judge" sure is different. I've been thinking .44 special or .357 but .45colt would be a good choice too. If nothing else, I'd like to fondle one.
I haven't been to my local gun shop since the new owners took over, maybe I'll go today.

Too often in gun threads, people give piss-poor advice, like shooting for the foot. There is no training program that will advise that. It's bad defensively. It's bad legally. I'm sure that next week when I'm doing my requalification, they'll still advocate center-mass hits and not foot, knee, hand, whatever hits.
Then there are the people who say they've fished X years and never needed a gun, so everyone who carries one is a Dirty Harry wannabe. Many things are worth having even though they haven't been used in the past. Lots of guys on the river have guns with them and you never know it. They're not waving them around or looking for a reason to use them.

 

I was fishing in western PA on a buddies private pond in the middle of nowhere. I heard a strange grunting noise and a rustle behind me. There was a mammouth Whitetail buck sporting a 12 point (6 point for you west coasters) 30 inch spread staring me down. Man I wish I had a gun with me. :beathead:

 

Cool concept. I can see how it could be used in a grouse drive by rather than a snake encounter :clown:. A rock or stick can serve the same purpose but it would be a cool toy to have. Reminds me of the Springfield Armory Scout 410/.22cal except in a pistol.

http://www.gunrunnerauctions.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=862516017

I have a few handguns from a compact .22 cal to a few full sized pistols of various calibers. Too be honest, I've never packed while fishing in WA although I would. When I lived in NM that was a different story…

 

Cliff, thanks for the story of your past experience. I'd just about given up on this board for anything substantive, but your post was informative and well written. It makes a good point.

Sterling

 

Cliff - Great story... well, in the sense of illustrating that you never know what's out there. I used to go out near Mt. Baker to pan for gold. I was out one time and had a couple guys take an unusual interest to my activities and if I had found anything. I'm not sure that they would have been dangerous, but I did get a bad vibe off them. Another time out there, by myself in the middle of nowhere I hiked up to a small creek. I started to pan but got the wierd creepy feeling that somebody was watching. I packed up and started heading back, in a previously empty field where very large prints in the snow heading in the direction I had just come from. I've had people flash guns, but have never been shot at. I'm going to be picking up a small 9 in the next few weeks and will probably keep it with me when I go out.

Scott

 

Scott, I've heard a very similar story from a hiker who had some problems with miners near some high, remote diggings. Sometimes bad things happen, and I think the key is to be aware of them, but not paranoid. I have to admit that it was literally years before I felt totally comfortable while camping near humans. Every time I'd hear a car drive by or see distant headlights in the night I would become fully awake, and wait for them to pass by. My buddy who endured that night with me told me the same thing, kind of like vets talking about something they had experienced in war. Now, I don't think about it much, but the pistol is there with me in the truck, just like the shovel, axe, water jug, coleman stove, etc. It's just one of the tools.

Cliff

 

Kent, good job stirring the pot again. I don't know anything about the Taurus. Glock 23 here.

 

my 9mm is too bulky most of the time so my next carry is the S&W ultra light 357. My friend has one and it is great! Tons of knock down power and light as hell. Shooting the 357 rounds are a bit harsh but its nice to be able to pratice with the .38 rounds with it.

 

I'll stick w/ my XZ-38 Disintegrator. More than happy with it.

 

I'm not going to go on a quote spree here to show that some of you don't read these posts or just can't comprehend what is being said. I didn't say that more guns=less crime.

Most criminals are NOT LEGAL GUN OWNERS. Therefore toss them out of your argument. What I said was in areas where there is a higher level of people carrying LEGALLY the crime rates are lower. I'm also not saying that everyone should be carrying a gun. I'm saying that a resonsible citizen should be allowed to carry if they see the need for it.

The only people you really need to concern yourself with are the criminals. I have my own reasons for wanting to carry a sidearm and I don't think you'd be in any danger fishing the same waters with me.