I do the same thing, I would love to get some advice as well!

 

Too light of a leader and or tippet for the size fly can cause that problem.

Dave

 

That sounds like a tailing loop, and I think everyone goes through phases where that glitch creeps into your stroke. My rough guidance is to concentrate on a few things:

1. When you accelerate forward, make sure that acceleration is gradual, not sudden. But do stop suddenly at the end of your forward stroke.

2. Concentrate on moving your rod tip in straight line. In the end, all that matters in a fly cast is what your rod tip is doing because your fly line will follow the tip. So when you move your hand, arm and shoulder, do so on a way that keeps your rod tip moving straight.

3. You mentioned tilting your wrist to the right on the back cast (assuming you're right-handed). I don't do that, but instead I twist my wrist left (counter-clockwise) at the end of my forward cast at times in order to guide the unfurling loop down a bit. With practice, you can still develop tight loops but control their shape a bit in order to help avoid the two halves of the looped fly line from meeting each other.

Having said all that, I suppose a certified fly casting instructor might quibble with my tips, but they've worked for me.

 

1. When you accelerate forward, make sure that acceleration is gradual, not sudden. But do stop suddenly at the end of your forward stroke.

This is what usually is the problem....or at least mine.

 

It sounds like you're experiencing the classic "tailing loop"; it's usually caused by beginning the forward cast too soon, or applying too much power unevenly to the forward cast. The usual result is the equally classic "wind knot", an overhand knot in the leader or tippet. Since the wind doesn't really have anything to do with it, it could be more properly referred to as a "casting knot".

 

By dropping you hand or tilting it, you are also increasing the problem of a tailing loop. The wrist should not bend in either back or forward cast. I have a couple of friends who are certified casting instructors and that's what's wrong with my casting, so I'm told. It isn't easy to correct but I am doing it by literally watching my wrist as I cast. Learning to spey cast helped, also because I had to concentrate on the correct movement. It's taken almost a year but I think I'm finally breaking the bad habit, most of the time anyway. I used to top outat about 65 feet. Now I get out considerably farther with a single hand rod.

 

Steve,

I have to say there is a slight (and not sure how to describe it) power stroke break in my wrist at the end of each forward and backcast of mine. I think it adds a lot of power to my cast. My stroke is a stiff wrist and movement of my arm forward and backward (the wrist parallel to the ground) with the wrist "breaking" a bit with some added power at the end of each stroke. Works for me quite well. My wrist does not "break" greatly, but it does- and it adds that little extra power. As far as Nick's cast, I agree with Preston's view.

 

Why worry about the little things. I'm sure we have all experienced that in our casts. I do the same thing and then on the next cast fix the problem. Don't ask how I do it, I just seem to.

 

Tailing loop.
There are many causes of tailing loops, chapter of books have been written about the cause and cure.
If it is something new for you it MAY be equipment (probably not) are you using a different leader? lighter butt section heavier bugs, weighted nymphs. If you are then you might need to tailor your cast to the bug. Throw a wider loop so the bug will stay above the line. If it is just the leader that is overlapping that may be the issue.
If not then you need to work on your casting stroke remember steady acceleration, firm stop, don't move the rod after the stop until you start your forwards stroke (drift and creep).
A certified instructor would help or have someone watch you and let you know what they see.
jesse

 

Nick,

I could probably find some time in the evenings to help you out if you are interested. I'm pretty flexible since I'm a retired guy. PM me if interested.

 

All of the advice above is correct. But what a few forgot to mention, is what really the problem is here. You Suck! Kidding, acctualy your getting better with your cast. Your gaining further distance than ever before, but with that distance your loosing your line speed and power. You need this speed to carry your line through the roll. So you need to start learning to haul you line to create faster line speed. Whats happening is your rod flex is supplying all the power through the line, but as more line is let out your loosing speed and power. So to create even more power and line speed hauling will help. Look up the haul and learn it, then learn to double haul, and you will see improvement in your cast. "Mell Krieger" was the best at teaching a fly cast watch his video's and read as much of his stuff as possible. He's a true jedi master! He has always has been my idol. May he rest in peace. Thats my two cents.

 

Wait for it.... make sure the line has unrolled in the back stroke before you begin the forward stroke. Use no wrist when starting the forward forward stroke. Start slow finish with a stop. These are the most common causes of a tailing loop for me. I sometimes get a tailing loop when I begin to cast with a stiffer rod. I focus on the before mentiond techniques and I get back on track quickly. Been there, done that, still do that if I do not concentrate.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions folks, I will be giving all of your tips a try in the coming weeks. Its not a new rod, and it is not specific to one particular rod. It is a newly developed problem. I've been fly fishing for quite a while, however I'm self taught and have tons of room for improvement. The tailing loop stuff makes sense, I just need to figure out what I'm doing to cause it. Perhaps coming forward too soon. Over powering the forward cast definitely sounds like something I'd do. I do know how to haul, and I was not casting more than 50 feet yesterday so I don't feel this was the problem. I was using an 8' 6" 4 wt, a 5x leader, and a size 18 soft hackle. I don't believe the fly was too big for the leader, but who knows.

Anyway, thanks again for all the input! Larry, I'd love to spend some time casting with ya some time. I'll shoot you a PM.

Nick

 

Nick, I do the same thing, and what makes it tough to break is not so much knowing the right technique, but convincing your brain to get back on center. Same as a pitcher's slump. You know what to do but getting that arm to do it is a different story. My arm loves to draw it back too fast, then compensate by snapping the wrist forward (me and everyone else). When it's happening my brain thinks I'm doing it right, but every cast is a trainwreck. One other helpful tip is looking straight up and watching the line pass back and forth in your peripheral vision. It makes you focus on the line speed and direction vs. what your rod is doing. And if the line is travelling correctly the rod and your form will magically iron out on their own. Works better for me than keeping track of the eight or nine things my rod shoud do with every swing.

 

It may be that your thinking about the cast too much, relax and let your surroundings take over. Try closing your eyes, you'll be amazed at what you can do by closing one of your senses down. Go off feel and touch alone.

 

It may be that your thinking about the cast too much, relax and let your suroundings take over. Try closing your eyes, you'll be amazed at what you can do by closing one of your sences down. Go off feel and touch alone.

I had the exact same thing happen last winter. I was on the Trinity and using a Press Powell vintage 9'-6" 7/8 weight LTSH rod I'd recently aquired. Really like it, even tho it is early gen graphite, 1987. Wont reach out like the GLX, but has it's own vagaries that I like. The slot I needed to hit was 70 to 80 feet out and I'd been ok with that previously. One certain day I just kept getting tailing loops; the more I tried to correct them, the worse it got. I finally went back to camp, had lunch and a beer, went out on a different run afterward and all was good. Moral is; I believe I was overthinking it.

 

I can really understand your frustration! I am no expert or natural caster,but I can really throw a nice tailing loop. Taking a break sometimes helps me (sometimes). Usually lawn casting will fix it faster for me, Back to basics 30 ft. of line out and I start side arm parallel to the ground breaking the cast into two sections forward and back trapping the line with my rod hand. trying to make sure my forward and back casts land in a line to each other. Once I get this down I make a few false casts and present.then move to 45 degrees then overhead. Most good casters I've watched break their wrist a little. Lefty Kreh says just push down slightly with your thumb after you stop(this works for me), also leading with the reel and pulling the line forward helped me a lot. I'm a pusher by nature and I run out of arm length and send the line into it self. Someone taking video of you casting so you can see it helps. Casting with somebody better than myself has always made me a better caster (I think ). I would sure take Larry up on that offer asap. One last thing casting instructors are worth the price an hour or two can really be worth it. Hope maybe some of this helps and or makes any sense.

Good Luck, Doug

 

I had to cure myself of the same problem - brutal tailing loops. After hours of casting videos and practice I've found that my biggest problem was waiting for the back cast to completely extend. I'd get too excited to hurl out the front cast and toss monster loops that tied knots and fouled up my rig. Now I'd rather wait a fraction of a second too long and risk a water or ground tap then get quicker if I need to. I'm also not as concerned about breaking the wrist in the back cast as long as it's well after the stroke has finished. Many instructors will tell you that laying the rod a little flatter on the back cast will help you let out a bit more line. As everyone here as said, steady acceleration to the quick snap finish of the stroke. Finally, try to minimize how much line you're false casting. Once you perfect a powerful (double) haul you'll be able to toss out a pretty big chunk on your final forward stroke. So, deep breaths, be patient and maybe finesse it a bit more. Have fun!

 

To much power at the beginning of your cast!

slow, fast, quick-stop

not, fast, slow, fast, quick-stop

I had the same problem- not overpowering the beginning of the stroke fixed the problem for me, YMMV.

 

Wow, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has experienced this problem. I'll be heading out to the beach in just a few so I will give some of this advice and try and see how it works out.

Thanks a ton!

 

Larry, we all have our own style that works for us. I'm no instructor. I think I have a punch as well but that in essance is the fianl acceleration to the abrupt stop that causes the loop to unfold and the fly to follow. It feels like a punch but when I really punch the cast, the fly hits the water a long way short of the intended destination. It's like driving the fly down into the water rather than floating it out and then dropping the tip of the rod to allow the fly to gently fall on the water.

 

Ah yes! Well spoken. And the ultimate presentation for me is to have the fly land sweetly and softly on the water first (before leader and line) and at the end of an outstretched tippet. Oh heck, time to go fishing! :thumb:

 

So I took my son down to a local beach for a couple hours this evening, and if anything I think my casting has regressed. lol I think I was overthinking it big time tonight. I was trying to think about all the suggestions I've received, and I think I kinda got caught up into it. I definitely need to figure this out. Its getting so frustrating!

It feels like my problem is definitely on the forward stroke. Alot of the time my back cast feels very solid. I can feel the rod load, I can throw a nice tight loop, but when I come forward thats where the problems start. I can really tell that I am overpowering at times. I was watching my wrist a lot to get a feel for what I'm doing with it. I noticed a slight bend in the wrist on both strokes- Not too much, but it was definitely there and I had a real hard time stopping it.

 

I do the same thing when, instead of stopping my forward cast positively....that is- suddenly just forward of straight up, I flop my rod tip down or just decelerate (break my wrist). This happens because I get in a hurry or don't let my back cast unroll completely...thus the tailing loop.

I slowly say, "slow down" an find a casting rhythm that is slower. My casts are much better and gomuch further, the slower I go....crazy.

Multiply this x1000 for spey casting

 

Nick, what the hell are you trying to do all at once? Some sort of miracle? Stop it. Focus on ONE objective to change/improve and do it, then the next, then the next.

I went fishing with Leland once, using two handers. He started by saying that I was dangerous (fact). Then he had me do one corrective thing, repeated that many times, then one more corrective thing, repeated that....

By the end of the day I was way better, far less dangerous and could two hand better than at least one other person that he mentioned (and out of respect to him I won't post his name).

Relax, simplify your corrective approach with one item at a time. Your cast is not nearly as shitty as you think. Casting from your backside on a lake is not the same as casting while standing. Lots of steps to work on, but nothing happens with you trying to work on them all at one time.

 

Sage advice, Ed. I recongize that trying to do too much at once is not a good method. I think I was just getting more and more frustrated, which was making me press more and more, which of course is not a good thing when you really should be focusing on slowing down. Looks like I'll be hooking up with Larry one of these evenigns for some lawn practice, so hopefully that will help some. I think practicing on the lawn where I don't have to worry about presenting a fly to an eager fish will help me relax and just focus on my mechanics.

I hope.

Nick

 

That crafty retiree can cast a long dang line.

 

So I have had the same problem since fishing the beach starting a couple weeks ago, it almost seemed like this was what was going through my head...distance, distance, can i get it further, am i hitting 70' yet, how can i get more distance... and the more i practiced the worst i got.

I saw a casting instructor today since I am going on a week long trip starting monday, I was kinda embarrassed when I called him and after we met at a city park he watched me cast a couple times and told me to relax he wasn't going to laugh at me, he started to bullshit with me to get me loosen up. he watched a couple more casts and gave some advice. This went on for 90 minutes.

In 15 minutes my loops looked great, in 30 minutes I was presenting the fly nicely at 25' feet. In an hour I was hitting my backback at 50'(3 out of 5 times roughly) at the end I wasnt just hitting the backpack I was presenting to it. I felt good about my casting and left extremely happy.

It cost 45 bucks and I would highly recommend it.

KC

edit: Also I am learning that everyone is really different when it comes to casting, for some reason if i change my arm speed while hauling i get all screwed up but I can change the speed of my haul to get more line out if that makes any sense. I also cant dance.

 

Big thanks to Larry for spending a few hours with me this evening working on casting. Was a pleasure to meet him, and I had a blast casting different rods and BSing like nobodies business. The kink in my cast acted just like that funny noise in your car when you bring it to the dealer-It didn't show up much of course. But he did get to see it a few times, and I think we got it close to figured out. I think my timing is just slightly off sometimes, and I think its more evident on the water when the prospect of a fish is getting me excited and impatient. I am probably also over powering the forward cast a bit as well.

Was great fun trying out Larry's selection of slower action rods (and it just dawned on me that I didn't cast his new BIIX 4 wt!!!!! Drat!) . I particularly liked his old Orvis 6 wt and the Browning glass he strung up. I also tried out a double taper line on my VT2 for the first time and will now be heading off to buy one soon.

Great way to spend an afternoon/evening!