[Davy]

flyshops come and flyshops go, like any other businesses. We "owe" them nothing. If one wants to open a shop and it fails, well, there may be 1002 reasons, but it failed. So be it. Over the last 25 years more or less there in the North King- Snohomish county area many shops have come and gone.
I can think of one guy that has ,indeed, lasted but for some reason isn't thought of as a "flyshop". But then , hey, he's still operating and "serving" the fishers that do go to his shop.

 

[Guest]

Cabelas seems to have the same prices on name brand (sage, Winston ect..) items as the local fly shops do. I'm pretty sure that the manufactures of these products set the price, so if it's the same to me, I'll buy locally.
F.

 

[Tim Lockhart]

Four active threads on fly shops today. Guessing it's a bit slow over there.

In any case Jofus wins this one (and I see a number of good posts). Caught my attention, made me laugh my a$$ off and made a relevant point. Nice:

What's wrong with wanting to be like Brad Pitt? That cat getts more ass than a donkey farm

We are the customer base. Yes what we do makes a difference. If we buy stuff, they make money, if we don't, they don't make money. I know a fly shop missed out on a sale saturday morning because they weren't open yet, lucky for me the megalo mart down the street was. It sucked to have to buy chain store garbage but......

Anyhow, I understand the sentiment behind supporting your local shop…we say it almost daily. Fine but doesn't work for me. The economy I know is based on individuals making choices that benefit self-interest. Shop's responsibility is to figure out what that is and provide it. Plain and simple. That doesn't mean trying it out at PFF then buying it on ebay. It means each retail source, Wally's, Freddy's, Michael's, whichever, serves a different need. If I run out of floatant and I'm already at FM I'll throw it in the cart and call it good. If I'm upgrading a rod and don't know my backside from what I'm looking for, I'll visit the shop, try stuff out, get good advice and pay for it. That said, we really are spoiled, just like Dillon, MO. Good number of shops, pretty much all of them nice to walk into.

 

[Captain Emo]

There was a time when I had more time than money. My local shop was always willing to trim off some of their profit to help me get into better gear. Wally-world would not do that.

Now things have changed. I wish I could take every Friday off for steelhead. My local shop is still in business. I still buy most all of my gear from them. I would never ask for a discount. The next, upcoming poor young guy can have the discount.

 

[NW Steve]

Cabelas seems to have the same prices on name brand (sage, Winston ect..) items as the local fly shops do. I'm pretty sure that the manufactures of these products set the price, so if it's the same to me, I'll buy locally.
F.

When they are at retail that is correct. They will offer a larger selection than most fly shops I have been in can afford to carry. Where they will really hurt them is when they have reddington rs3 rods for $129 (reg 199) or Loomis streamdance for $220 (reg 350) among others. They recently had these prices, hard to turn down if you are in the market.

 

[Guest]

When they are at retail that is correct. They will offer a larger selection than most fly shops I have been in can afford to carry. Where they will really hurt them is when they have reddington rs3 rods for $129 (reg 199) or Loomis streamdance for $220 (reg 350) among others. They recently had these prices, hard to turn down if you are in the market.

True that! iagree

I would also add that I'm almost convinced I'm spending too much money as things have been tight lately. I've always used others website to check review and bought from shops locally, but it sounds like I'm paying too much....I hate that.

 

[3356]

One of the things that struck me when I first moved to Montana back in 1979 at age 25 was that fly fishing was the norm. Yes, there were some folks using spinners, but for the most part, nearly everyone used flies on the rivers and streams. Lakes were a mixture of bait, spin fishing, and flies. I suspect it is because fly fishing for trout has been pretty much a way of life in Montana for 80 years and as such has been the cultural norm for river and stream fishing there. There is also a strong predilition amongst Montanans to buy local whenever possible because that keeps the money moving around the local community instead of sending it out of state.

 

[Anil]

When they are at retail that is correct. They will offer a larger selection than most fly shops I have been in can afford to carry. Where they will really hurt them is when they have reddington rs3 rods for $129 (reg 199) or Loomis streamdance for $220 (reg 350) among others. They recently had these prices, hard to turn down if you are in the market.

Both of the rods that you mention are discontinued models. Without turning this post into a shameless plug, we are offering those same rod models at a discount (other dealers are very likely doing the same).
Many people assume that larger box stores offer better prices. With the exception of a few clearance items, prices are fairly competitive throughout the industry. Remember that local shops have to clear discontinued inventory as well. You might be able to walk into your local shop, give the rod a test cast, and walk away with it for the same price.
Anil

 

[NW Steve]

Both of the rods that you mention are discontinued models. Without turning this post into a shameless plug, we are offering those same rod models at a discount (other dealers are very likely doing the same).
Many people assume that larger box stores offer better prices. With the exception of a few clearance items, prices are fairly competitive throughout the industry. Remember that local shops have to clear discontinued inventory as well. You might be able to walk into your local shop, give the rod a test cast, and walk away with it for the same price.
Anil

That would be great. Not much money for you but better to keep a local customer and possibley sell them other things. I was wondering when a shop would chime in. We see one side of the counter and you see it from the other. Thanks

 

[3369]

I live in Woodinville and used to visit a shop a few minutes from my home. The last time I went there I had a hilarious conversation with the guy behind the counter. He asked me what I did for a living (I informed him that I was a junior high science teacher) he proceded to tell me that kids had no respect for teachers because they had no real world experience. It was pretty funny listening to him, almost like speaking with Dwight Schroot from the office. He proceded to rattle on about a wide range of topics including how he had the ability to spot a "B.S. er" from a mile away. He talked to me about guiding in Alaska and how if he and I were competing guides everyone would choose him because of my short haircut and brand new Patagonia chestwaders (He was close on that one, I actually had purchased a new pair of Simms a couple of years previous). He went on about how much he knew about fish and how difficult it was for people like me to really get to know a fishery (I have a degree from the UW in Fisheries Science). He also elaborated on how he was working on his business degree for the past several years and how much his professors respected him because he wasn't like these young kids who were hurrying through school just to make a bunch of money. I went back a few weeks later and the shop was closed. Go figure.
-JE

 

[Pointshoot]

I read an article recently (I think it was in an issue of the FFF magazine) that was like others that I read. It mentioned the decline of interest in hunting & fishing in general. Reasons for the decline that were speculated included less time families are spending together - and reduced freetime in general, kids spending more time on the internet and plugged into i-pods, etc instead of in the outdoors (just look at the specs on increased obesity in kids and teens), and an increased urbanization of the country. It seems to me that such larger trends probably have a much greater role in closing flyshops and gunshops than the attitude of other fly fishermen on the water. (Who cares what some jerk might say or do anyway?) - - - So perhaps the 'pie' of available fly fishing customers is getting smaller. I like going to small shops that have knowledgeable, personable staff people. The difference between what they offer and the big box stores is miles apart. I'm willing to pay a little extra money to support fly and gunshops that offer this kind of service and atmosphere. On the other hand, small shops with owners/employees with "an attitude" won't get my business, and if they do the same to other customers they will perish. There's just too much competition out there to put up with that kind of treatment. - - -

 

[Be Jofus G]

I don't know man. This is just an observation but I don't buy that "less people are fishing and hunting" stuff. Yeah license sales are down, but every year I see more and more people on the water. I don't mean a few more, I mean a significant amount of people. Places where I knew I could fish a fresh run even at 8:00 am have truned into elbow to elbow combat fests and the traditional combat zones aren't seeing any less pressure. This confuses the hell out of me.

 

[chadk]

I don't know man. This is just an observation but I don't buy that "less people are fishing and hunting" stuff. Yeah license sales are down, but every year I see more and more people on the water. I don't mean a few more, I mean a significant amount of people. Places where I knew I could fish a fresh run even at 8:00 am have truned into elbow to elbow combat fests and the traditional combat zones aren't seeing any less pressure. This confuses the hell out of me.

My theory on that is - 'the power of the internet', as well as rags like Fishing and Hunting news that publishes 'river maps' and 'hot spots'. The learning curve is way down compared to what is was 10 years ago (as far as figuring out the basic what, where, when, and how. Back then, if you wanted to find out about a where to go for chum salmon, if you even realized there was a fun fishery for them, you didn't have many options. Maybe the local shop would point you to a few spots, but that's about it.

Today, you have realtime reports at your fingertips. Some times, people will even report on what rock they were standing on. You get pics of fresh caught fish that motivates you to head out. You know what rivers are producing better than others. You can see if the river is blown out without leaving your warm dry house. You can read lake stocking reports, etc etc etc.

So yes, less people, but those that are fishing are fishing more often, and fishing 'smarter'.

 

[Be Jofus G]

Makes sense. In that case, I would like to report that I just caught a dozen 60 pound king salmon in the clogged drainage ditch that runs along the rear parking lot of the albertsons in monroe. This is the best fishing spot I've ever seen. I saw another guy catch a 320 pound sea run steelhead halibut underneath a shopping cart that had fallen into the ditch.

Hopefully that helps my cause :rofl:

 

[chadk]

You may think that is funny - but I know guys on this board who actually do post bogus info to steer people away from their favorite spots... won't mention any names....

Example: "forget the snoqualmie, the sky is on fire this week!!" Meanwhile, they continue fishing the snoqualmie (or whatever river they were directing people away from...).

 

[Be Jofus G]

I dunno, I thought it was funny. :beer2:

 

[Richard E]

Could also do alot more to get you back like having a frequent flier program for buying flies (box store 1 mile down the road sells flies for 1/2 the price), ect. Nice guys but need to be more agressive about getting business, especially since they will have the 'C' store 15 miles away.

Interesting point about the frequent flier program. Avid Angler, here in the Lake Forest Park/Kenmore area, offers discounts after a customer buys X amount of flies over the year.

Those flies sold at Sportsman's Warehouse, just a mile down the road, although 1/2 the price of what is offered at the fly shop, are maybe 1/2 the quality of those flies sold at the fly shop. The shop's hackle is much better, tied more uniformly, better hooks, more durable - been there, done that.

 

[Richard E]

flyshops come and flyshops go, like any other businesses. We "owe" them nothing. If one wants to open a shop and it fails, well, there may be 1002 reasons, but it failed. So be it. Over the last 25 years more or less there in the North King- Snohomish county area many shops have come and gone.
I can think of one guy that has ,indeed, lasted but for some reason isn't thought of as a "flyshop". But then , hey, he's still operating and "serving" the fishers that do go to his shop.

That's the attitude that is contributing to the closure of many of the shops.

I love (substantial sarcasm here) these guys that want and expect a small shop there to provide them information, but don't feel like they should help keep these little guys in business so they will be there when the customer wants information. Ted's is still open for a number oof different reasons . . . and although Mike does have a heatlthy inventory of fly fishing materials, he could hardly be considered a fly shop. Most small shops aren't luck enough to own their own building and property, and rent can be a substantial expense. For most shop owners, it's a labor of love; these folks typically aren't making much of a living.

Own and run a small business like one of these some time. The modern customer has their own interests at heart; they'll go wherever the best deal is presented. For most folks, including the upcoming generations, it's 'all about me'. It's a sign of the times. The person who buys a reel and a few spools on ebay, and the gets pissed because the local fly shop charges him for spooling backing on his ebay reel and spools. Heck, I was in a shop recently where a customer was bragging to the shop owner about the great deal on ebay for a new fly reel. Man, I almost fell down. The shop owner was very cool about it, but this customer exemplifies a lot of what is happening; it's 'all about me'.

The big boxes and the internet - the little shops can't compete. It's math. I know several experienced folks in the fly fishing industry, and according to them it's a sign of the times. Some things are just an 'is', and this is just one of them.

 

[Davy]

That's the attitude that is contributing to the closure of many of the shops.

Ted's is still open for a number oof different reasons . . For most shop owners, it's a labor of love; these folks typically aren't making much of a living.

.

I agree with yuh Rich on the 1st sentence except for the part about if we are contributing to the closure what the heck contributed to the opening? Lack of research?

This thread was about us contributing to the closure of shops. Not , if it's bad, or good, or anything else.

Over many years I have had this very topic of conversation with many business owners including Mike and they just shake their head as to why anyone would do it. Given that, why on earth when said or given shop opens, why does anyone feel bad, sad or anything else about it closing 2 , 3 or 4 years later?

True,, Mike's, or um, Ted's, is not a "flyshop". He will just have or get anything a flyfisher or fisher including tyers may need and his word is golden. But , alas, he is not a "flyshop". Things like property ownership and other fiscal advantages just makes it even more plain how financially insane it would be open a "small" shop.

Twenty five years ago over the course of a week or month a small shop had to average one high ticket sale per day, such as a rod, just to have a hope of a go. In those days that was a basically a 250.00 item plus other walkin smller ticket business. I can't even imagine what it takes at todays commercial lease rates.

Don't have to go to "flyshops" to be a flyfisher.

 

[NW Steve]

Interesting point about the frequent flier program. Avid Angler, here in the Lake Forest Park/Kenmore area, offers discounts after a customer buys X amount of flies over the year.

Those flies sold at Sportsman's Warehouse, just a mile down the road, although 1/2 the price of what is offered at the fly shop, are maybe 1/2 the quality of those flies sold at the fly shop. The shop's hackle is much better, tied more uniformly, better hooks, more durable - been there, done that.

Most of the flies at the fly shop I frequent are the same brand as the box store down the street. They do have some locally tied flies So you are paying double in most cases for the same flies and advise. The advise has been very helpful, which is why I still go there.